Simon

Hehe, you won't get a pissing contest from me. You can give a genius any tool that will get the job done and they will do the job with flair and distiinction. On the other hand if you give a dolt the finest tool available, your just as likely to end up with a load of crap. If you gave me a copy of a classic design and told me to work up some offsets using CAD, my path would be to scan the drawing into the computer and work from there. Of course I'd have to learn how to use CAD first! As you imply, you won't find a modern boat design place that doesn't use CAD, but as to whether an old master would have used CAD, were it available, well its very hypothetical isn't it? I feel they probably would have, as it surely would have been the industry standard, and I see no particular reason why that would have affected their work in a negative way. I have a great deal of appreciation for old ways of doing things, but this world we live in is in constant evolution. Just because its easier for a less talented person to produce a result using technology, does not mean that a talented persoon is less likely to produce a work of genius using the same. The issue as I see it is that "adequate" results can be produced by a dolt, with the possible effect of dissuading a true talent from the field. But is this the fault of technology, or a more profound problem with society?

I guess those plastic ones would be more consistent too, so that if you gave two different draftsman the same offsets they would draw the same curve. I don't think you'd find many contempory pro-draftsmen using splines at all these days anyway, unless they are totally anachronistic and/or catering to an anachronistic client, since CAD is faster, more accurate and more convenient. Will the art die? I think not, because it will always be practiced by amateurs with a masochistic bent (pun intended). The tools on autocad for fairing lines are called splines, after the mathematical objects, which are in turn named after the oriiginal splines ... now that's funny! One also has a choice of splines on CAD, which may or may not reflect different choices of material for the spline one is hopnig to simulate.

Sure it does Dave! The real question is one of scales - suppose you are drafting a boat at, say, 1:16 scale one uses a spline made of wood, of the appropriate dimensions for its flexibiltiy, to draw the sheer. When you come to loft the boat, you'd really like a piece of wood which has the same scaled properties as the original spline, but 16 times the length. That would give you the best chance of reproducing the original curve based on your calculated offsets. In practice, as yourself and the good Commander have pointed out, its really just a matter of eyeballing the curve - upsidedown if dextoroially challenged - and seeing if it "looks right." If not, one has the choice of selectiong another batten from one's collection, or adjusting the original measurments to make the new curve look fair.

My thanks to you both. 8) I'm a mathematician by vocation (and nature I guess), so I'm interested in ways to fair curves (which we call "interpolating points"). As an interesting aside (to me ), a mathematical curve which smoothly joins a set of known points is called a spline ... now why would that be :roll: :wink:

I'd certainly recomend painting before you install the seat tops. It did slow things up a bit, build-wise, but in the long run its the faster, easier route. I took Frank's advice and put a layer of 'glass on the bottoms of the lockers (where water might collect), coming an inch or two up the wall before painting. I admit it was hard to resist the urge to put the seat tops on before painting. Good luck with your choice.

Great info Bob, thanks alot!

Hey Jake, well done, it looks mighty fine from where I'm sitting. An idea I just had - as each new child comes to use the crib, a new quarter is embedded in the wood somewhere. After a few generations the thing will be festooned with quarters, and grandpa (ma) will be able to point out his quarter to grandaughter (son). Grandpa can show son (or daughter) how to embedd the quarter for grandson. Now that would be a nice thing to have! Did you end up buying plans for the cradle, or was it case of "I know what one looks like, how hard can it be?" Hey Frank how about a cradle section of the forum Or ... cradle.com .... or messing-about.inbed.com and its attendant consequences with cradles as one fo the discussion forums

How sad, and yet inspirational. Makes one realiise that the definition of the word 'family" is really quite inadequate for the meaning that it encompasses.

Hey, Bill's pretty knowledgable as well! Dave, I've no reason to supect that my saw has lost its temper, (though it did complain a bit when I put it down the other day ), what would you look for to determine this ... some blueing of the teeth perhaps? And I guess it would go blunt quiet quickly, it hasn't done that yet, but I've been using it on hardwood (Jarrah), cuts really nice, but I wander how long it last now. :shock:

I have a keen interest in restoring old handtools, we have a marvelous flea market nearby that runs every Sunday. My most recent success was with an old handsaw, although it was a near thing. I brought the saw home and used a car battery charger and some Sodiium Hydroxide to clean it up using a process of eloctrolyis - it came up very well and I could see the manufacturers stamp on it. I'll provide more detail on this process if anyone is interested. The saw teeth were all uneven, with some broken. After the saw was cleaned up I clamped it between two lengths of wood, with the lowest tooth even with the wood. I dressed the saw with my handheld belt sander. This was very effective and I ended up with an even edge on the saw .... but this was where the problems started. I wanted to cut the saw as a rip saw, it had previously been a cross cut saw, but the teeth spacing was right for a rip saw. I started to file the teeth, but found that with the rather radical dressing that I had given it, I could no longer index the teeth effectively. I was having a lot of problems knowing how deep to cut each tooth, and where to make the file cuts. I couldn't solve this problem very easily, so I took the saw to a saw doctor. For $AU25 he cut some perfect ripping teeth on it and I couldn't be happier. I'm sure I can resharpen the teeth now I know where they are (It won't let it get that bad again ... ) but to fully recut the teeth I couldn't see any alternative. I think the saw doctor did it with an indexed grnding machine, probably took him 5 minutes. I wander if there is a way I could have done it? As an endnote, I will also mention that several saw doctors I spoke to wouldn't take the job on and urged me to buy a brand new 'hard point' (unmaintainable) saw for a similar (or lesser) price. I finally convinced one by saying that it was my father's saw and a priceless family heirloom (which it is now ). There's scant appreciation for old tools it seems, because his response was that I should just hang it on the wall as is ... but by then I'd dressed it and it didn' t look very nice anymore .... and anyway I want to use this baby. Long story short I payed a total of $AU35 for a saw that I couldn't be happier with, and will see me through this life time and perhaps a few more generations ... Sorry for getting slightly OT, I have somethings to say about handplanes too, but I better let the thread develop a bit more first ....

Awsome post Bob, one quesiton I didn't see: Is it feasable for an amature to operate a smaller version of such a mill and be in front, considering time spent operatiing the mill (and learning to operate it! ) and maintaenance on the mill verses the benefits of cheap timber and perhaps on-selling some of it to enthusiasts? Or would one most likely be better off employing a professional such as yourself to do this work? Its something that me and a couple of friends have often considered, especially after a visit to the local yard!

No problem Frank, I did quote Tim where he makes the offer for people to come and sit round a fire drinking Candian beer, but I don't think that was deleted. Must have just been a mistake, but it wasn't really a worhtwhiile post anyway .... just prefer to talk about beer than politics to be honest. Don't get me wrong I have some strong views, its just that I can yack all day to people about boats (or beer) and never think anything bad about them ... as soon as plolitics is mentioned things can get ugly really quickly and suddenly the best of friends end up hating each others guts for what amounts to a difference of opinion. There have been wars started that way you know!

In all these very interesting and polite posts here, why was my acceptance of a beer from Tim in Canada deleted? Not trying to inflame anyone here, but did that break the one rule in some way? Or was it off topic :?

Was it Bob that built the 'Dion Work Punt'? I love that boat, and tried to track down the book that it came from, but am only able to get it for around $AU120, which seems a bit steep. Is it worth it? Something about that punt ... so simple and yet appealingly lines, and has the look of something that could be thrown together very quickly and with a great deal of satisfation. Its utility is also part of the mystique I think, although I'd have no real use for it ... not as such. Perhaps Bob would care to comment?

Samuel the shed monkey:

There seems to be enough info on that site to make near copy of that cradle if that's what you want. But that would be wrong ... or would it? :? Serious question, if you just took that concept and whipped one up, would that be wrong?

Hi Jake, I built my cradle boat pretty much by eye as I went along: www.maths.uwa.edu.au/~scolling/cradle/ I wouldn't say it was especially easy, or especially hard, but it was fairly time consuming. As you are all too aware, getting something to a decent level of finish (this is furniture after all, not a boat ) takes time and patience, more so than skill IMO. There are quite a few other cradle boats around, but I doubt if you'd find one simpler than my single chine design. Bill Olney (from the BYYB) built a lapstrake one, which he turned into a coffe table (maybe there's an idea you can use ), I think it looks much nicer than mine, but I don't regret designing my own. Good luck with your choice, and congrats on impending grandfatherhood Simon.

Its probably not a bad idea to allow a certain amount of room for the mast to swell up, otherwise it may get jammed, or worse yet split your mastbox (and deck :shock: ) open. I doubt you'd need to allow as much as 1/2" though.