Charles Neuman

I came to the same realization recently, but I think it will work. Eventually I will get started on a CS17 (I am now building a small stitch and glue boat to test the process). I framed my awning and installed clear plastic walls to make a weather-proof shop. I had to add a 1' extension to make it exactly 17'. I figured if I positioned the boat diagonally, I'll have enough room to work on it while it's in the shop. Then I looked at the plans again recently and noticed the side panels won't fit if they are flat. Boy did I feel silly. But then I thought about it: First of all, I can gain some space by working diagonally, as others have pointed out. Also, the panels won't be flat on the boat, so they don't need to be flat in my shop. So if I need to, I could have them curved while I join the pieces together or touch up the edges or whatever I need to do to them. Only the part that I am working on needs to be flat. The rest can curve up to the ceiling. Once the hull goes 3d, then everything will be 17' long so it will fit. Charles

Here's a link to the Goodwin article: A Wood Mast Made Easy

Ah yes, Sailrite, p. 32 (of the 2004-2005 catalog) has all the hardware and the track. Yes, the track seems pricy. I, too, was wondering about the flexarail. An external boltrope track seems like a good system. I notice there are also other boltrope options, such as aluminum (actually, it's called "awning track" and is made for awnings). That's encouraging to know that it has worked for a sail. I wonder if the folks at Sailrite would recommend it for that. I could always get a small piece of it and put some fabric in it with a boltrope or slug and see how much force it takes for it to fail. I'll have to read up on the internal track on a wooden mast and see how much trouble it is. I might opt for high-tech in the end, because I like the idea of being able to raise and lower the sail quickly and have the luff attached at all times. It seems like a good safety option. If I'm not sailing alone, I'll have my kids out with me (when they get old enough), and I'd rather feel 100% comfortable in the boat. Charles

Wow, thanks. I thought everyone was going to convince me to use aluminum masts. That's more practical, of course, but if we were truly practical, we wouldn't build our own boats, right? Charlie, are there more pictures of your boat somewhere? I tried the Gallery section, but there aren't many photos there. Didn't there used to be more? Where did everyone's boats go? Charles

Can you make a wooden mast with a track in it? It doesn't seem impossible to rout a track in it, but it could weaken a hollow mast. Maybe I could make the mast walls a bit thicker to compensate. Or... maybe attach a metal track on the outside of a wooden mast. If there is such a thing, that might work. If there isn't, then maybe it's possible to make a wooden track out of a hard wood, then attach it to the mast. Charles Neuman CS#135 (still haven't started yet, but the shop is finally winterized...)

Thanks. I'll bet that's what the builder used on that boat. Cetol is known for not being as glossy (although they do make a gloss version) and also for being somewhat orange in color, which explains the orangish color on that boat (which looks nice). I also learned that it's durable and easy to maintain. I think I'd prefer a low-gloss (almost satin) varnish. I'll have to read up on finishing techniques. Whatever I use, I'd be a little concerned about finishing the deck bright. People tend to warn against maintaining so much brightwork. Charles

Who built CS17 hull #40? I'm curious about the finish on it. Unless there's some effect with the lighting or the photography, it doesn't look like a high-gloss finish. To me, that's a nice look. It looks very elegant (not to mention all the wood work on that boat). How is that finish achieved? Did someone use a semi-gloss varnish, or did they rub out the varnish to look like that? I wanted to avoid a bright finished deck, figuring I could save a lot of effort by painting. But it's hard to consider paint when you see a boat like #40. Charles

Thanks everyone! The plans show how to make the transom frame stronger if there is no aft deck. It also says to make it even stronger if there is an outboard. What modifications are necessary for a small outboard, such as a 2 or 4 hp? Also, as long as I'm bulking up the transom frame, I might as well consider making it solid. Anybody do that? What would be the suggested thickness? 3/4"? Thanks, Charles

That's a good idea for the raised seat. When you make it with a seat instead of a deck, do you place the aft bulkhead in the same place (as opposed to having a different bulkhead placed further aft)? I assume so. That would give an aft seat that is about 2 feet deep, which is deeper than the side seats. I can't quite read the dimensions of many photos, but that seems like it's reasonable. Charles

I notice that some people have an aft seat rather than a deck. The seat makes the boat look a little more open, but it does sacrifice some storage space. Any other pros and cons I should consider? Thanks, Charles

Here is the thread with the oars, I think: Advice on oar placement and purchase for CS 17 And here is a direct link to the picture of the oars: http://www.messing-about.com/forum/download.php?id=2250

I like those oar ideas. Graham, how long is the blade part? Looks like about 1.5 - 2 feet from the picture, but it's hard to tell exactly. And what plywood thickness did you use? I would guess 1/2", or maybe 3/8". Charles

Is it really necessary to have all those lines running aft? Typically, there are two: the snotter and the downhaul. You could also add a halyard. How often do you adjust the downhaul while sailing? How about the snotter? That one seems like it might be of more use, but I haven't sailed a boat with this kind of rig before so I'm not sure. I might consider setting up something to keep the tiller steady so I can go forward and mess with the lines when necessary. (The fear of what might happen would make the sailing adventure more fun!) I'd prefer not to have those lines all over the place if I can help it. I don't intend to race, and I'm not super-fussy about sail trim. Any opinions? Charles

I recently asked that question on the Woodenboat forum. Here's the thread: Topic: dark paint colors over epoxy "Post curing" is the process of raising the temperature of the cured epoxy near its point of softening. That is supposed to increase its ability to handle hot temperatures in the future. I have also asked Joel Mill of Devlinboat (see his website at boatbuilder.org). He said that in the Pacific Northwest it's not a problem for the boats they build. In Florida he probably wouldn't paint a boat blue. I plan to paint my topsides dark and the deck white, and I will keep the boat covered when it's not in the water. That should help. Charles

I had an idea: If I am concerned about the PVC epoxy joint, I suppose I could make a plywood tube that has a square cross-section. I could also attach it on its forward end so it is really sturdy. My concern is that I might lift up on the oar before taking it out of the tube, and that would yank the PVC tube right out of the bulkhead. Charles

Nice! Is the frame collapsable? Is the flexrail attached to the coaming, or does it stay there because the sides are attached to the coaming? Actually, I'm not sure what a flexrail is. Does it have a track, similar to a track in a mast? Charles

One more question: I found one place that sells 8.5 oz tape, but not 10 oz. Is there much of a difference, or should I keep looking?

Thanks for your comments. That's interesting that Sam Devlin overdesigns his seams. Many of his boats are pretty large, which might be related to that. Even the small boats seem like large boats. The 15' Nancy's China weighs 800 lbs! Almost 300 of that is in ballast. It must drive like a truck, but I'd feel pretty safe in it. It seems people have various reasons for glassing the hull. It's helpful to hear them. Thanks, everyone! Charles

I like that idea. How do you attach the PVC pipes to the forward bulkhead? I wouldn't think epoxy would stick to PVC very well. Charles

The plans call for 10 oz tape on the seams. I am reading Sam Devlin's book now. He recommends cutting your own 4" tape from a larger piece of cloth so that you have loose edges. Otherwise, the woven edges of the tape may not lay flat, and they could trap air bubbles. Do most CS builders follow Devlin on this one? Or does the tape work fine? Also, is there any need for biaxial cloth on the seams? Devlin recommends this, too, for added strength. Most of Devlin's boats are bigger than the CS17, so maybe it's not much of an issue here. While we're at it, do most people glass the hull? I enjoyed the thread on that topic. Anyone want to comment on why they did or did not do it to their boat? Thanks, Charles soon-to-be CS17 #135

Thanks for your responses. That's helpful. Tim, I'd be interested in your motor mount. Seeing as how I haven't built my cs17 yet, your pictures might just be in time! I'll keep an eye out. Charles

I noticed that some people make a cutout in the rear deck so that you can mount an outboard on the transom. Does anybody have any advice on doing this? Or pictures? Another option is to attach an engine mount on the transom. Anybody try that approach? Those engine mounts aren't cheap, but they seem convenient. Charles

Graham, do you have any updated floorboard pics yet? I'm curious how you connect the two sides together to make a floor for the cockpit, if that's what happens. Charles CS #135

Yes! Happens to me all the time. I was going to post a similar message about my table saw, but I was too embarrassed! My table saw is sometimes more of a table than a saw. Nice Belhaven photos. I haven't started on my Core Sound yet, but I look at the plans all the time and dream about just about every detail. Actually, I literally dreamt about it today during a nap. I was dreaming about the seat hatches. Charles

I've seen those capsize photos. They are pretty encouraging! As for the rear hatch, here' s an idea: If the rear hatch is on the surface of the deck, and it's large enough, it seems like you could store a small outboard in there. I know that some people like to have a 2hp outboard stashed away and not installed on the mount. They use it mostly for emergencies. It might be harder to get in there if the hatch is on the bulkhead. Just an idea. I don't know if the dimensions work out. Charles