mfrankel

I agree that manually building things as a hobby has probably declined as computer oriented hobbies have grown. Based on SOF forum traffic, the market has always been relatively tiny. And a former classroom based SOF business started selling online plans about 18 months ago. I summary, I would not be surprised if it turns out that your market share of an already small and shrinking market is being diluted.

I had a similar thing on my Ravenswood. I cut a small patch of polyester skin, bought some heat n bond, and ironed the patch over the hole area on the inside of the boat. To seal, I put a few coats of paint over the patch on both the inside and the outside. Then, I cut a piece of transparent tape like gorilla tape, (I found tape that was thicker), and taped over the hole area on the outside of the boat. Until I stopped using that kayak, the tape would yellow and start to degrade about once a year so I replaced the tape a few times. My hole was not on the bottom of the boat but a little further up the hull. I don't think there was any seepage from that spot after the repair.

In the woodworking world, the conventional wisdom is that a light oil rub gives wood almost no protection from water. Why is the conventional wisdom different in the the SOF world? I built a Dave Gentry Chuckanut with a huge open cockpit that I did not oil, and a Kudzucraft Ravenswood that I did oil. The Chuckanut gets a lot of water splashing in. The Ravenswood not as much. After about 5 years of regular summer use, the Chuckunut has not deteriorated at all. Nor has the Ravenswood, although it too has experienced its fair share of water. The Ravenswood looks a little cooler when you are climbing in because the wood is a little darker. I am now building a Cape Falcon F2 tandem. The instructional video confirms my experience. Cape Falcon shows you how to oil the frame, but the video says that step is included because builders want it, and you should feel free to skip the step because it is unnecessary. My conclusion: don't oil and the borax-bleach questions are moot.

Thanks for taking a stab at a tandem. This looks similar to Dave Gentry's Chuckanut, which I built at 15.5 feet. It is a wonderful recreational boat, especially for a first boat. It is stable as a barge, but fairly fast. The beam is at least 30". After a couple of years of scraped knuckles it is time to move on. The only narrower tandem plans arrived on the market a few months ago: the Cape Falcon F2. It is an elongated F1 and is hopefully just as versatile. It is relatively narrow at 24" wide, and very long at 20 ft. It has ribs, laminated beams and two cockpits. I am in the middle of construction now. It takes 1000 times longer to build than a Kudzu Craft. My wife and I are experienced paddlers but not adventurous. I would have preferred a bigger version of one of your designs with a beam in in the mid twenties and length about 18 feet. Not a lot of choices out there.

I put on about 6 coats of Rustoleum paint with a foam mini roller and made sure I did not miss any spots. Then I checked to make sure nothing was leaking by putting some water in the kayak. I checked for pin holes and none were visible. But I always had more than an inch of seepage after a few hours of paddling. I thought it was just an SOF thing you had to live with.. A couple of years later I read some building instructions that said you should use a regular nap roller when applying paint, not a foam hot dog roller. I put on 3 coats with a regular nap roller, each of which was a thousand times thicker than hot dog roller coats. No more seepage.

Cape Falcon recently started selling SOF tandem plans. I think they are the only tried and field-tested tandem SOF plans except for the Gentry Chuckanut. The plans are relatively expensive and require cutting and bending a lot of ribs, which is harder than just cutting a few frames. But beggars can't be choosers. I built and paddled the Chuckanut with my wife for a number of years. It is a great boat, particularly for beginners. It is over 30 inches wide and stable as a barge - but inexplicably fast. My wife graduated to a solo, but still likes the tandem for longer paddles. Having gotten used to a solo, she is ready to trade a little stability for a narrower easy to paddle kayak. The Cape Falcon seems to fit the bill, except I think it is too long for maneuverability and garage storage. There is extra room between paddlers which I will shorten. It will be my next build absent a KudzuCraft alternative. P.s. Great quote from Abyssdncr's buddy!

Jeff: Compare the photo below of my wife in my Ravenswood to the photo above in post 5 of this topic in her Osprey 13. She did not feel uncomfortable in the Ravenswood. (It is a remarkably stable comfortable ride). The Osprey 13 coaming is much lower and works very well for her. I don't know the Osprey specs, but it is probably on the Pygmy kayak website.

Pygmy Osprey 13. Not a skin on frame. Much more expensive. Much harder to build. But the best option I found. Perfect for 5 foot nothing 100 pound woman.

My vote: Don't compromise. You are the only one offering SOF innovations like this. Explain to customers (a) how much laminated beams will improve comfort and safety and ( how easy they are to make. No one will want to settle for less. How do you think the new beams will work with the Shad?

Thanks. Please post when available.

Have you updated the plans in the store to match this version?

My wife is the same size. I searched without success for SOF plans 2 years ago. NO LUCK. I built a Pygmy Osprey 13. More time and more money than SOF, but she is more than happy.

Thank you for taking the time to do this. Your design is cosmetically the same design I have in my head for the kayak I am presently building. Including the plumb stern, (to reduce the length). Since I already have a C-15 to get through this season, I intend to trash the frames I just cut and start over with your plans when they are ready. if you are looking for a guinea pig, I will even assume all risk and build a prototype. Please, carry on!

Jeff: Your design looks similar to the modifications I am making to the Yost plans, except for the baidarka stern. Trying to keep it simple. Mark

I have been paddling a (slightly modified) C-15 with my wife for a few seasons. I am 5'9" and my wife is 5'1." Neither of us is heavy. If my wife was significantly taller, I would lose legroom and would probably feel a little cramped. For us, the C-15 is very stable, easy to paddle and surprisingly fast. My wife overcame her insecurity about kayaking in the C-15 and now prefers to paddle solo. But for orthopedic reasons, we need the tandem for longer and strenuous paddles. We took the C-15 on a 14 mile paddle on Long Island Sound last Sunday. It was delightful. Earlier this year, I did the same search you are doing because I like building kayaks, I would like to move on to a narrower, faster kayak with two cockpits, and at this point, I think it is safe to sacrifice some stability. There are double plans listed on the Clarkcraft website, but when I placed my order, they replied that they are sold out. I did not see the Falcon option. The only plans I found are the Yost plans Jeff mentioned. They are available on a weird website that archives old web pages. I think it is Internet archive wayback machine or something like that. I am shortening the plans a little so the double will fit in my garage better, lowering the gunwales an inch for ease of paddling, and for reducing the volume and modifying the deck slope so it looks less like a torpedo. A word on plan modifications. When I built Jeff's Ravenswood design, I changed nothing. Jeff says his plans are tried and tested and I believe him. Same with Dave Gentry. Before modifying his C-15 plans, I emailed Dave to get his blessing. Unlike Jeff's and Dave's plans, Yost never claimed his plans were tried and tested. He posted them for free. If builders told him the plans were no good, he took them down. I don't see internet pictures of completed Yost doubles. And now the Website is gone altogether. I doubt that you are messing with success modifying the plans. In any event, the Yost plans are multi-chined. I am planning to make the stringers 5/8 x 3/4, and the gunwales 5/8 x 1 3/8.

Any suggestions for a spray skirt that fits well?

Update?

Dear Jeff: You are one of only a few people in the world who have the skill, experience and platform to create and market an sof design so wonderful that when people see it, they will realize it is better than what they thought they wanted -- but didn't know it. In other words, you can create a market. Your inspiration to combine the performance of long shot with the looks of Shad, coupled with your excitement over the design, means this is a concept you have to try. I am already figuring out which of my boats to donate so I can make room for the new one, assuming you pull it off. Having said that, and knowing that we are talking about generically light sof craft; now that i have been paddling a few years, if i do another build, I will want 1 Resistance/ ease of paddling 2 ease of rolling 3. Speed potential. 4 Stability. 5. Weight Happy Thanksgiving and thank you for your good works. Mark

The keys to avoiding "divorce boat" issues are that the stern paddler has to follow the bow paddler's strokes and the boat has track well enough that the bow paddler does not have to constantly adjust her stroke. Maybe I am a born follower, but I have no problem with the first requirement. As to the second, alot of plastic boats don't track. Dave Gentry's Chuckanut has worked for my wife and me and for several years. It is a little over 15' long. Spacious, probably because my wife is small. It is very stable, but has an open cockpit, so not for rough water. Like Jeff's plans, the plans are easy to follow and Dave is very available by email. I made some cosmetic modifications with Dave's assistance. The Chuckanut is the bottom boat in the photo.

Is there a truly noticeable difference between paddling a Ravenswood and paddling a Shad?

I spent about six months building a Pygmy Osprey 13 from a stitch and glue kit for my wife during occasional spare time on weekends. This is one of very few diy kayak plans/kits designed for smaller people. It is 13 feet long, 22" wide, multi-chined, and low volume. My wife is under 5'1" and she fits perfectly. At 5'9", I was able to squeeze in before I put the back brace in, but It I did not chance it after. The weight feels about the same as my Ravenswood. Definitely under 30 lbs. The instructions were clear and Pygmy machined the parts perfectly. There were a lot of steps in the process but none of them was hard to do. However, there is very little margin for error and I am now officially sick of working with epoxy. It takes 10 times longer to build than skin on frame and the total cost was probably $1300 all in, including two trips to West Marine for extra epoxy and (overpriced) spar varnish. I had an enjoyable cold weather project, It floats, and my customer is pleased with the result.

Jeff: I tried the light inside the boat method because I had success with paint using that method. I could see no pinholes with Dura Tuff. I will try the sawhorse method when the season starts. If I had it to do over again, based on your success with Vardo, I would spray.

Dura Tuff The good: I used dura tuff on 8 oz polyester skin on a rowboat. It is as clear as water. I used it un-tinted and it looks fantastic. The light glows through the fabric. The stringers are clearly defined through the skin. It is exactly the look I was going for. The bad: It is either more vulnerable to seepage than Rustoleum paint, or I can't figure out how much to use or how to properly apply it. It is like liquid plastic. I put quite a few layers on already using a 6" foam roller. It may be that it does not go on adhere well enough with a foam roller. I bet it should be sprayed, but i did not try that. It sets up very quickly so you can't go back over it much. The fumes smell toxic. It is not exactly use friendly. I lost count but I have probably applied more than 6 thin coats and I still get about 3/4" of water in the middle of the boat along the keel after an hour or 2 on the water. That is acceptable. I have a small can left so will probably add another couple of coats at the beginning of this season. Maybe that will finally seal it. The bottom line: If you want a crystal clear finish for a relatively see through look, (or as see through as you can get with 11 oz material), use the Dura Tuff. It takes a lot more effort but it looks fantastic with no amber tint like varnish leaves behind. If you want to use Dura Tuff because your research tells you it is better than paint or varnish, you may be right, Unfortunately, there is almost no guidance on the web for how you apply the stuff to polyester. Paint is almost idiot-proof and predictable.

Given my wife's trepidation about solo kayaking, two years ago, I built a Chuckanut 15 SOF tandem from Dave Gentry's site (being that it was the only SOF tandem design I could find), and so far it his given my wife and me a few hours of fun on most summer weekends. I think most of the reason that tandems have such a bad reputation is that the tupperware versions tend to be heavy and don't track well, if at all. My wife and I rented two different tupperware tandems from two different vendors while on vacation last summer, and we finally understood why Jeff calls tandems "divorce boats." It was so bad that my wife finally agreed to try a solo kayak. (And that led to my current project building her a solo kayak, but that is another story from another post.) No one seems to know that a decent tandem moves really fast. My wife and I are novice middle aged members of a diverse kayak club, including some kevlar kayakers. I doubt that there is more than one member who could come close to keeping with us in a race -- especially a long race. In my opinion, for a group like yours, the best alternative is both solos and tandems.

I hate to admit this, but while I was wasting time trying to figure out how to shrink an existing SOF design, my wife strayed from the SOF fold and was lusting after the Pygmy Arctic Tern 14 stitch and glue kayak one of our kayak club members built. To make a short story shorter, tonight I ordered a Pygmy Osprey 13 kit. It is a 22" beam, 13ft kayak. It is designed for paddlers 5'3" and shorter and has been in the Pygmy lineup for some time. I am told that it is popular with petite women. This will be my first stitch and glue experience, and I am looking forward to a nice late fall early winter project, (except for the sanding figerglass part).