Advice

[markfitz]

We are planning to take the weekender out on Thursday, but the weather calls for West winds 15 to 20 mph with gusts up to 30 mph.  Too much for a couple of novices? I may be able to get a third with sailing experience on a larger vessel to join us, but I am wondering if we are asking for trouble.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

I guess it depends how fond you are of swimming.

Yeah,  15 to 20 is a bit much for a first time out .  I would look more for 5-10.

[Frank Hagan]

I'm with Ray ... too gusty for sea trials of a new boat, not to mention a new skipper.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

I wouldn't even take out new to sailing non sailors in such conditions.

Even though I would be comfortable handling them. 

Very good way to turn spouses or children into lifelong sail haters.  Good way to make young kids scared of boating in general.

Make sure there first experience is a good one.

If you are not a sailor already it might even be a good idea to take the boat out yourself in lighter conditions to get comfortable with the whole routine before bringing many passengers too.

I learned on a 15 foot Oday Daysailor  I went out a few times all alone.  I then went out in 15 to 20 knt winds alone and learned a whole lot more.  This boat had no means of reefing, and the sails were horribly blown out.  All the tweaks I had read about tightening things down to flatten and depower the sail did nothing on this boat

I also tried backwinding the Main by easing it out and sheeting the jib right tight.

Couldn't tack through the wind at all.  Would start and then be blown down  At one point got blown off and a monster gust came.  Since the Main was well eased the boom was in the water and releasing the mainsheet was doing nothing as water pressure was preventing it from going further off.  Water came up over the sheer and started flooding the cockpit and in a last ditch effort I cast off the jib sheet and the boat popped back up and I saved the day.

Closest I have ever come to a knockdown capsize.

I had maybe 80 gallons of water sloshing about my feet going out the scuppers.

\

Got back to dock and dropped the sails and walked squish squish up to the camp.

My wife was confident enough if I could survive that she was willing to try sailing with me on a lighter air day.

Wife had never much cared for boating in my grandfathers power boat.  But she sure did take a shine to  slowly sailing about noiselessly and enjoying the scenery.

  First few trips were all pleasant and uneventful ones.

[PAR]

I made the mistake of taking my second wife out for her first sail in very blustery conditions. I knew I could handle it, but she was like a cat on a piece of plate glass. She never would get aboard anything under 30' after that and this required considerable drinking to prime her.

Big wind can teach you quite a bit, but you need the basics first. Go out with an easy breeze first, then work your way up into the holly grail stuff later.

[markfitz]

Thanks for the words of wisdom.  We scrubbed our mission for tomorrow and instead we will work on finishing up some other things like rebuilding the split boom-crutch. Next week, I guess.  I would rather that the maiden voyage not be someone elses rescue mission!

[Andrew_Butchart]

Sounds like you're missing an "adventure" like the one I had on my maiden launch last year.

http://byyb.org/forum/index.php?topic=2371.0

[markfitz]

Oh boy....after reading that, I'm *really* glad I didn't take her out.  Reading that thread and the comments did raise a few questions in my mind.  I read this bit "But as Paul noted, everyone's gaff should drop smooth-as-pie when the peak is eased so that the gaff is horizontal. Then let the throat and peak halyards out so it falls while remaining horizontal. If it's not doing this in your driveway-sailing exercises, keep fiddling with things until it does. It's pretty necessary."

When we "driveway sailed," one thing I noticed is that the gaff doesn't seem to have enough weight to come down smoothly on its own.  It will drop horizontal ok, but as you bring the main down it seems like the gaff lines have too much resistance going through all the blocks.  It's certainly not "smooth as pie" unless you're talking about a very lumpy pie.  Once it's down to "grabbing height" I basically have to grab the gaff jaws in one hand an lever the rest of it down with the other.  I know I'm not explaining this very effectively, but I hope you get the gist of it.  Our gaff is pretty thin -- we could only find closet rod, and it's about an inch and a half in diameter.  Maybe it's just not heavy enough?

[Frank Hagan]

Lighter is probably better with the gaff.  Can you pull it down by flaking the sail ("flaking the sail" is stacking it in an accordion fold on top of the boom)?

[PAR]

I'm not sure how many "falls" you have in your tackle, but 2:1 is over kill on a Weekender. Most tackle friction comes from lines chafing other lines, not the sheaves, so look carefully at how they are arranged to prevent lines "sawing" on stuff as they run through the tackle.

As for the gaff being horizontal, this is a subjective term, but means very nearly so or there abouts. Some rigs like the gaff to be slightly down at the peak, which pulls the jaws away from the mast a bit, while other rigs like the gaff slightly peaked to relieve tension on the hoops, beads, lacing, etc. I've found that a good look over the rig will discover a host of chafe issues. Sheets, halyards, lifts, jeers, preventers, vangs, etc. all need to be addressed. I've also never seen a novice builder/sailor get this part correct, right out of the box.

In the golden age of sail a bosun (boatswain) had but one real job, to find and fix chafe issues. Imagine a 3 masted square rigged ship. It has literally miles of line strung through tackle. One line rubbing on another can cut through it in a day or so, with modern line much faster, so the bosuns ran through the rig 24/7, rearranging lines, sewing on leather patches, etc., all just to make the rig live longer, prevent damage and improve safety aloft. Having a yard drop on your head, because it's halyard was fouled by a lift and sawed right through, makes for a bad hair day to say the least.

Take a good look at the way the line run through the rig. Rearrange them so they don't rub against each other and you'll dramatically reduce friction. Then again you could just smear bacon grease all over everything, which is similar to what the bosun did and make things good and slick.

[markfitz]

I was wondering if maybe the sheaves we used were too small...they seem fine, but they are certainly not very large.  Basically it is rigged according to plan up top, but then it runs to a cheek block at the base of the "tabernacle," then to another block on the starboard chainplate, then back to a cockpit cam-cleat.  It does run over the outside of the gaff jaws.  I don't see anything rubbing, other than on the mast and gaff jaws.  Maybe it's time to cook up a buttload of bacon!

It seems easy to adjust the position of the peak halyard, and that will drop to a relatively horizontal position just by releasing the cam cleat, but as the sail drops, eventually it seems like the weight of the line (sheet? man, I need a glossary) balances out the weight of the gaff, and it just stops wanting to drop by gravity alone. That's when the the gaff and the mainsail stop coming down together, and the peak halyard falls behind.

[Frank Hagan]

How is the sail lashed to the mast?  You may have some friction either with the mast hoops or mast lashing that is stopping the movement of the sail, thereby stopping the movement of the gaff jaws. 

[markfitz]

The mast is tapered and has radiused edges, and the sail is lashed to PVC rings.  They seem ok.  Sails are kind of stiff... That wouldn't have any thing to do with it, would it?

[Frank Hagan]

You have to analyze what's happening with the mast hoops.  If they are alternating up/down with the sail raised, they might be binding enough to cause the gaff to go only horizontal.  By "up/down", I mean that if you looked at the mast from the side, the mast rings would look a bit like this:

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They won't be angled that much, but I hope you get the idea. Ideally, they should be closer to horizontal:

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I'm thinking your friction might not be through the blocks at all, but in the mast hoops.  If you can pull down on the luff (the portion of the sail along the mast) and get everything to start moving down, it might be the mast hoops at issue.

The cure?  Sometimes its worse than the disease with plastic mast hoops, but one solution is to put a "distance line" on the hoops:

[markfitz]

Hi frank,  yes I have the spacer line and it does seem to help.  Maybe tomorrow I will get a video of what's going on.  And I will pay special attention to any binding.