An introduction and some advice needed

[ampollard]

My name is Tony, and I started building a Coresound 17 (hull #55) quite some time ago.  I got the hull together, installed the internal bulkheads and keel batten, and started framing out the seats when I went back to school for a career change.  So....the boat has been quietly resting in that state in my garage, waiting for me to have some time to finish (working full-time, and full-time grad school...plus a couple teenagers (who are now adults) kept me from attending to the project).

Well...now, my wife and I will be moving across country (from Georgia to Northern California) to take a postdoc position, and I need to find a good way to transport my boat.  Right now, it sits on the building cradles.  Initially, I thought I would load the boat in our moving truck, but the more I think about that option...the less I like it.  I figured I would end up leaving some of my lovely wife's stuff behind in order to fit the boat and a motorcycle...plus some tools (the truly important stuff), and said wife might end up being unhappy when I arrive without some of her stuff...

So...now that I am changing gears, and don't have a lot of time (We are moving in two weeks)...I am wondering if you good folks can help steer me in the right direction.  I have been lurking and reading on this board for many years, and I have read many threads on trailers...but I am still unsure of which course of action to take.  I have seen a few trailers for sale in my local craigslist, and I wondered if you guys would take a gander at the listings and tell me if they are appropriate for a CS 17. 

Also...I am concerned about the partially completed state of my boat.  I have filleted/taped all the internal joints including bulkheads, but have not taped the exterior seams...I also do not have the exterior keel installed.  I figured I would attach braces laterally from inwale to inwale.  So...I will not load up the boat with a bunch of crap, so it is not going to be very heavy...I am just worried about whether I might cause problems with my ply panel seams that are only reinforced on the interior.

So...here are a few of the trailers I was considering.  Please take a look and tell me if any of these would be appropriate:

1.  http://atlanta.craigslist.org/wat/boa/1796648601.html

2.  http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/boa/1837044096.html

3.  http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/boa/1841318502.html

Thank you in advance for any assistance!

Tony

[Gordy Hill]

Tony,

My vote is for the $300.00 galvanized. The springs will be for a much heavier boat and will give you a rough ride. Changing the springs is no big deal. Keep the other ones.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Those exterior glass tapes really do add a fair amount of strength to the hull.

Shoot, the internal seat bulkheads and seat tops do too,  as does the thwart seat and the deck.

Wind buffetting the hull unsupported by deck and internal seat webwork with windspeeds approaching 40-50 knts will not be unsubstantial.

That being said,  one can always repair the damage that might be caused later.

Personally I would like to see the exterior seams taped over and inwales installed at a minimum before I would want to move a hull long distances.

[John Turpin]

I might try to sell the current, unfinished project locally before the move and start a new project on the West Coast.  You'd lose the time/effort you've already put into the project, but it would simplify your life quite a bit.  That's my $.02.

[PAR]

The bulk of seam strength is provided by the inside corner fillets and tape. Given the hull will have it's internal bulkheads, and possibly a few additional athwart braces, I see no reason she wouldn't survive the cross country trip unharmed.

She'll be very light in the condition described above, maybe 125 - 150 pounds at best, so any trailer that can accommodate her length will do. This is a long trip so a bearing inspection at the least is called for.

Brace her up and go for it, she'll do fine.

[ampollard]

Thanks all!  I appreciate all your input.

I do have the inwales installed and can brace up the boat fairly well between those.  It has the 3 layers of glass tape and ample fillets on all the interior seams.  I do also have the seat stringers and short bulkheads that divide up the seat storage areas installed.  I thought I would install a temporary thwart across those seat bulkhead locations to tie that area together (acting like the fore and aft bulkheads). 

As for the specific trailers...do you all agree with Gordy's assessment that the $300 unit would work well?  Do you think that any of the three options would work well for a CS17?

Thank you again!

TOny

[Ray Frechette Jr]

regarding Trailers,  I always advocate buying new.

Locally I can get new galvanized trailers with the larger wheels, bearing buddies and a trailer tounge jack for $650.00.

And it's new.  You know the condition of the bearings,  There is no hint of rust, or rot in the bunks and the wiring and tail lights are pristine.

Just a bearing job alone nearly wipes out any savings on a used trailer if you get it done at a mechanic.  And if you do it yourself to save money you have spent an hr or so of your most precious resource.  Hours of your life...

At teh very least it is worth seeing what you can get new for in your neck of the woods and consider what sort of price savings you get in reality.

[ampollard]

Hi Ray,

I think I would be open to a new trailer, but I am having trouble knowing what kind of trailer to get.  I am quite ignorant on the subject...one of the craigslist links above has bunks only for 1/3 to 1/2 the distance...and the others have bunks that are much longer.  I know most people see the rollers as taking the load (through the keel), but I am wondering whether there is a minimum length for the bunks?

Also, Atlanta is not a hotbed of boating (though we do have a few lakes nearby)...places to buy trailers new are not easy to find.  I figure an ignorant person is easily parted from his money...so I am trying to become less-ignorant :-)

So...looking at the trailers I listed in the first post...which would be most suitable for a CS17?  If I know that, I have a better chance of finding the best trailer.

Again...thank you for all your help!  I am looking forward to reengaging in this project now that grad school is done.  My kids are now grown, but I am hoping to entice them into the CS17 someday.  They used to sail with me in a small Moth Class sailboat I built as a teenager and still have.  With all of us being grownups...we can't all fit in the 12' planing dinghy any more (plus my son is used to cruising around in a nuclear submarine for the Navy).

[Ray Frechette Jr]

The trailer I usually buy is the Karavan KB 1250 series.

You can get it in different widths.    All of them have a capacity of  1250 lbs.  You don't ant a trailer with too high a capacity as then the springs will be too high for the weight of your boat causing more pounding going down the road.

I like to see a trailer where I can adjust the axle position fore and aft on the trailer.

Most trailer resellers are only familiar with setting up for power boat use.  as such with weight of motor axle is a fair amount back and boat has minimal overhang of back of bunks.  If you go in asking for a trailer for a sailboat they are generally thinking in their mind something for a deep fin keeler and will likely tell you they have nothing available that is suitable.  What you need is something suitable for a 14-16 foot long aluminum outboard boat.  That will work fine.

I prefer 12 inch wheels instead of 10 inch.

Maximum overhang allowed by law is 4 feet.  If more you need remote trailer lights on back of boat.  Then you adjust axle position so 10% of trailer weight is on hitch.

I like to adjust with center keel rollers supporting all weight so bunks are adjusted only to keep boat from toppling one side to other.  As scuh bunk length is not a big issue.  Minimal load transferrance there.  Still a good idea when setting up bunks though to orient them under seat longitudinal bulkhead.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Trailer 1 would look awfully funny under a CS boat.  Looks like it would have a very heavy rating to it also.  Oversprung for the load you are intending.

Trailer 2 looks perfect fro what you want, Caveat as to load rating and condition before buying.

Trailer 3 looks like it has a very heavy load on it too.  Again may be oversprung for your needs.

[Scott Dufour]

Hey Ray,

That 1250-56  Karavan you mentioned-  the specs say the distance between the fenders is 56", but a CS17 is 70" inches wide.  Are the fenders low enough so the chine sits over them?

What's your take on the Karavan aluminum I-beam 1500-52 for use in salt water?  More expensive that it's worth for a CS17?

[Tom Lathrop]

Atlanta not a hotbed of boating?  Lake Lanier is the busiest lake with the most boats on it of any lake in the US Corps of Engineer's system. 

Placing all the support under the keel is fine IF there is a full length strong keel system.  I consider the CS marginal in this regard but there is another even stronger part.  I like to put most of the load on the seat/tank bulkheads which is one of the strongest and stiffest members in the boat.  Loading both keel and bulkheads gets my vote and I have trailed many-many thousands of miles without damaging a boat on the trailer.

While the boat should be securely fastened to the trailer, you can place a lot of stress on the boat with over the gunwhale lines to the trailer.  I have often placed a bunk at the point of the tie down so that the load goes to the chine, which is also a strong point.  A sailboat often gets lots of stuff that would not fit in the car stashed in it.  That should be considered also.

Oh, and don't forget to allow for rain drainage.  Drill a decent sized hole at the location of the future bailer.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Hey Ray,

That 1250-56  Karavan you mentioned-  the specs say the distance between the fenders is 56", but a CS17 is 70" inches wide.  Are the fenders low enough so the chine sits over them?

What's your take on the Karavan aluminum I-beam 1500-52 for use in salt water?  More expensive that it's worth for a CS17?

Sorry I didn't see this earlier..

Yeah, the deadrise of the hull means that the chines easily clears the wheel fenders.  Adjust the keel rollers for clearance and adjsut the bunks to suit.

Since I set up my trailers so that no metal ever touches the salt water , I see no reason to opt for aluminum.  I never immerse the trailer in the ocean.  I launch with only the rubber of the wheels kissing the salt water, and I recover the same exact way winching the boat on the trailer.

Never ceases to astound boaters when you do it and they are watching.

[hokeyhydro]

Hey Ray,

That 1250-56  Karavan you mentioned-  the specs say the distance between the fenders is 56", but a CS17 is 70" inches wide.  Are the fenders low enough so the chine sits over them?

What's your take on the Karavan aluminum I-beam 1500-52 for use in salt water?  More expensive that it's worth for a CS17?

Sorry I didn't see this earlier..

Yeah, the deadrise of the hull means that the chines easily clears the wheel fenders.  Adjust the keel rollers for clearance and adjsut the bunks to suit.

Since I set up my trailers so that no metal ever touches the salt water , I see no reason to opt for aluminum.  I never immerse the trailer in the ocean.  I launch with only the rubber of the wheels kissing the salt water, and I recover the same exact way winching the boat on the trailer.

Never ceases to astound boaters when you do it and they are watching.

Wow - only wet tires?  Wouldn't work with my two trailers since they ar "drive-on" trailers.  Yep, bury those buggers in the water so just the top couple inches of the fenders stick up, then power up the boat, aim for the winch post and slide `er on!  My oldest trailer is a 1983 Cox painted steel, some maintenance to battle rust which never sleeps, but she's still rolling.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

works exceptionally fine on the CoreSounds though.

By not immersing the trailer in salt water you don't subject the galvanization to attack,  or the nuts and bolts holding everything together,  or the lights or the axle....

And when winching boat on board the boat the boat automatically self centers itself on the trailer the very first attempt  as opposed to the Power boat drill of pull it out,  back it back in and try again,  repeat ,  cuss repeat....

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Placing all the support under the keel is fine IF there is a full length strong keel system.  I consider the CS marginal in this regard but there is another even stronger part.  I like to put most of the load on the seat/tank bulkheads which is one of the strongest and stiffest members in the boat.  Loading both keel and bulkheads gets my vote and I have trailed many-many thousands of miles without damaging a boat on the trailer.

My 20 has seen better than a thousand miles under it over the road with all the weight on the rollers with no ill effect.

Add to that  I haven't heard of any failures to a CS keel from trailering with all the weight on the keel roller.

I suspect the compound curvature of the vhull coming together provides substantial strength even before adding the keel batten and the keel skeg and further the Cboard trunk ties in significantly with a serious I beam effect tying into both the longitudinal seats and the forward seat.  The keel rollers are set up so one is under the aft bulkhead, the middle one is under the aft end of the centerboard trunk  where there are also bulkheads in the seat lockers, and the forward roller is under the front of the centerboard tunk.  Final bearing is on the bow roller by the winch.

I won't be losing any sleep over my set up on the trailer.

Oh My,  I am sounding like I am becoming a crusty opinionated curmudgeon too.  A good 15 to 20 years ahead of my time.... :o

[Scott Dufour]

Thanks for the info on the Karavan trailer, Ray.  My current trailer is just about rusted through everywhere...

[Tom Lathrop]

Oh My,  I am sounding like I am becoming a crusty opinionated curmudgeon too.  A good 15 to 20 years ahead of my time.... :o

I appreciate all the support I can get :grin:

Fitted and handled properly, rollers are fine on most boats.  Unfortunately, I've seen far too many boats damaged by poor trailer support.  A beautiful 1956 Lyman lives next door to me that has been severely damaged by such poor trailer supports.  It has a significant hook in the bottom that drives the bow down so much that spray flies over the bow at high speed, even in calm water.  On a sailboat, the same kind of hook would render the boat dead slow.  Properly fitted bunks are much more forgiving than rollers, especially on a wooden boat.  A combination of rollers for loading and bunks for support makes a good system.

Regardless of what kind of supports are used under the boat on a trailer, they need more thought than many people give them.  The trailer dealer has no idea how the trailer will be used and should not be relied on for advice.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

I do have bunks under the longitudinal s albeit with about a scant 6 mm clearance under one side of the boat or the other...

[ampollard]

Hello all...I wanted to provide a follow-up update on how the move went.  I purchased a new trailer from a company called Tennessee Trailers (based a little north of Chattanooga).  I went through one of the few nearby boat dealers that would help me get a trailer that would work.  They were amazingly responsive as I had a very short time-frame to work from.  The woman who worked at the local boat dealer sent her mom up to Tennessee to pick up my trailer so I would have it in time...pretty good service.  I am very happy with the trailer, and also happy to say that CS17 #55 made it safely to California.  We even loaded an old 11' moth class sailboat hull I built when I was a kid into the CS17...and we clamped the Moth mast onto cradles built between the bulkheads and transom.  My father was helping me load, and we ended up with a fair bit of stuff loaded into the boat (no more room in the moving truck). 

Anyway...I wanted to thank all who provided advice on my question.  I am looking forward to getting settled here in the wine country and getting back to work on finishing OPUS before sailing season next year.

Oh...and no problems for this boat riding primarily on the rollers (though the bunks were also snugged to the hull)...with only a keel batten in place (no external keel or external glass tape/epoxy installed yet).  In other words...these are mighty strong hulls!

Best,

Tony