Building Cost...Belhaven vs Princess 22

[Charlie Jones]

Actually she was sliding down a wave. We had some significant ones that day. Travis shot a series of Tehani pretty soon there after and they show her bow up, then bow down, and the dinghy is almost hidden in a couple.

They were taken in Matagorda Bay on a pretty gusty day, and neither boat had a motor running.

[Travis Votaw]

Good point about the downhaul, Ray.  I put a block on my downhaul cringle after the TX200 last year when I talked to Graham and saw the EC22.

It really helps out in reefing, too.  One issue is that we could not get the thinner walled alum pipe to make the masts, so they are not quite as bendy as they might be, and the sail is cut for the more bendy mast.  However, I have not seen fit to try and have the sail recut.  I'm in the process of making a longer main sprit boom and intend to put at least a triple purchase on the snotter so I can maybe flatten the sail a little more when on the wind.  What do y'all think about doing this.

Charlie made the spars to spec. but the sails seem to be a little longer on the luff and foot.  The sail track is also eating on the sprits when sailing wing and wing with the sprits crossed over the tracks.  I need to attach some spacers each side of the track like Graham did on the EC22 to prevent this wear.

[Charlie Jones]

Dang! Charlie, how'd you get your fillets so fine?

Dennis- if you only knew how many MILES of fillet I've run since 1976

Seriously- a gloved finger, wet with alcohol ( either denatured or just plain rubbing) will smooth a fillet to where you almost have no need to sand. If I'm not glassing over, that's what I do. If I'm glassing it, it gets taped while wet and smoothed with a brush.

[Ken_Potts]

If I'm glassing it, it gets taped while wet and smoothed with a brush.

Well that one little comment would have saved me about a thousand hours of sanding several years back  ;D  Even so, I'm glad to be able to file that for future reference.  Thank you!

[Howard]

However, I have not seen fit to try and have the sail recut.  I'm in the process of making a longer main sprit boom and intend to put at least a triple purchase on the snotter so I can maybe flatten the sail a little more when on the wind.  What do y'all think about doing this.

Charlie made the spars to spec. but the sails seem to be a little longer on the luff and foot.  The sail track is also eating on the sprits when sailing wing and wing with the sprits crossed over the tracks.  I need to attach some spacers each side of the track like Graham did on the EC22 to prevent this wear.

Keep in mind, I've never even seen a rig like this, but have been studying them from afar.

Travis, before you start messing with the sails, I'd mess with the location of the snotter attachment on the mast. Moving it up and down affects the angle of the dangle and as I understand it, an inch or two up and down on the snotter location can improve tension in all the right places (foot and leech). Sort of a trial and error to get it right, but once you find the sweet spot, you leave it.

And as for chafe, you could try stitching on a set of oar leathers on the sprit as chafe patches. Even with the spacers, which sound like a good idea too.

On the bubble in Pilgram's sail, looks to me like the main is sheeted in tighter than the mizzen, and if so, could simply be luffing a bit. Or that could be an illusion in the photo. But in comparison to the degree of heel on Tehani, she certainly is on her feet and moving. Very nice.

[Charlie Jones]

As I said previously- that bubble is NOT a normal thing- Pilgrim was sailing fairly quickly and sliding down a wave of about 3 feet. Laura happened to snap the shot when the main backwinded a bit.

However, the masts ARE a bit stiffer than the plans call for and the luff round IS a tad large for that. The sails were cut for a bendier mast, All in all, she does a wonderful job and has surprised MANY sloop sailors when they found themselves staring at her transom as she sails past.

[Travis Votaw]

If this works... here's a pic of Pilgrim on the TX200 - first morning - on a broad reach.  Sails are set pretty well except I didn't have the main downhaul tight enough.  This seems to be a common failing for me from looking at a lot of pics  of the boat under sail.  The two part tackle downhaul will allow me to pull this down easier.

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

Good discussion.

In the interest of comparing boats, how does the Belhaven compare to the Core Sound 20?  Since the Belhaven is an evolution of the Core Sound series, how does it compare and differ?  Since I have a CS20 this would be of direct benefit to me.  But to help make this more conclusive, we can include the CS17 in the discussion.

Stability, speed, responsiveness, etc. are areas of interest to me.  Also how much more difficult to launch.  I dont expect it to be any more difficult (easy) to rig than the CS boats.

[Greg Luckett]

...Here's a pic of Pilgrim flying her stays'l on the first morning out on the TX200.

I try to save any PS22 pics and now this one is my current wall paper.  Nice picture.

Thanks

[Greg Luckett]

Dennis- if you only knew how many MILES of fillet I've run since 1976

Seriously- a gloved finger, wet with alcohol ( either denatured or just plain rubbing) will smooth a fillet to where you almost have no need to sand. If I'm not glassing over, that's what I do. If I'm glassing it, it gets taped while wet and smoothed with a brush.

AH HA!! Now I learn Charlie's secret. He probably told me before but with the CRS problem....... ;D

[Apteryx]

I spent some time discussing this very subject with Graham last night as I am working up an estimate to build a Bellhaven for a client right now.

Ah, the temptation to ask if there are any expenses to be saved if you build by the twosies.  I know there aren't, but even if there are please don't tell me.  ;D

Travis' cabin seems huge to me.  Hearing that the Belhaven is actually larger was a surprise, but what possibilities.

When either you or I someday build me a Belhaven I'm going to look at what can be done to leverage that cabin space for one or at the most two-handed camp cruising.  No firm ideas yet, but a big table, something that could be stowed when not needed, to lay a chart on would be nice.

Maybe dispense with the starboard berth and make both cockpit lockers the same size.  The portion of the starboard seat still extending under the cockpit deck might make a nice locker for food stowage.  In fact, if both lockers were the size of the standard starboard locker that would put some nice lockers in the cabin.  Some kind of slide-out galley to port, lots of personal dunnage in a locker to starboard.  I don't think I'm obsessive-compulsive, but I do like to have as much as possible stowed away during the days when I cruise.

To port a galley with a place for a five gallon freshwater bottle.  For sanitation and water taste's sake I'd rather not have a permanent freshwater tank.  Maybe another five gallon greywater bottle under a sink.  Maybe the freshwater bottle could go under the companionway steps.  No portapot for me, the PETT is the way to go and takes far less space.

Just a few thoughts.