Frank-Interesting information

[Barry Pyeatt]

Frank,

This material should be referenced in the FAQ section. It is invaluable information for our fellow builders. Especially the articles with information on Epoxy, Latex Paint and Rot repair. This information is concise and well written and completely applicable to the builders of Stevenson boats.

http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/articles.html#A1

[Frank Hagan]

Dave is actually pretty controversial, especially his views on using glycol or antifreeze for rot preventative in wood. I do have his article in the links section under "Information Sites", because he does have a lot of good information. But he kind of reminds me of the father in "My Big Fat Greek Wedding", except Dave uses antifreeze instead of Windex. He lost me at a critical point ... you won't find me using antifreeze on my penis anytime soon! :wink:

I would encourage anyone thinking of using antifreeze as a rot preventative call the epoxy manufacturer for their comments on compatibility. Last time I heard, West System and System Three both refused to endorse the idea. And I think Richard Jaegle in Wooden Boat Magazine had something on his "rot preventative" idea too. If I remember correctly, the gist of Jaegle's article was that while glycol can kill mold spores on contact, it won't penetrate into the wood, and doesn't have "staying power" like some of the other preservatives out there.

[High C]

Hmmm, I don't think the anti-freeze idea was being touted so much as a preservative, as a means of killing existing fungus. There are all sorts of ways to protect wood from rotting in the first place, and to restrengthen rot damaged wood, but it sure is hard to kill the "virus" once it's in there. I like the logic of the water solubility, too. It's the water that spreads the fungus, and if the attacking "medicine" is also water soluble, it stands a much better chance of going wherever the fungus has migrated.

[Guest]

stop!! This is not a good topic to attempt to discuss on this new boat building site with a few discussions of a different nature, from time to time. Frank, if you choose to open this topic up, some may not be too happy with the results, down the road on some repair work. And also to include if someone reads it and thinks that they may extend the life of their new project. This is just my thoughts, for what its worth and what you paid for it. Cheers. 15 Simmons redos, and three new ones under the belt.

I can discuss it in general, but its really best that you find other alternatives when using epoxy in conjunction with it.

[Frank Hagan]

Well, people can discuss it. We really don't have a topic cop here :wink:

It is pretty controversial, almost like religion and politics, so people should remember we're not talking about religion or politics. Just boat building.

[Guest]

I guess I came across a little wrong when addressing this issue. I attempted to make the point that is it not the fixall, saveall , that is touted. I love Dave like a father when it comes to the work of the Simmons, and live up the road from him. But one should be very carefull when mixing this under glass or epoxy coatings. If you wish you can delete my earlier response to this issue, Frank. Regards

[Frank Hagan]

No problem, Oyster! I share your concerns on using it under epoxy. I have just had too many bad experiences with epoxy being contaminated ... I tried to make an epoxy/wood flour paste that I used on a newly painted post to fill a hole, and it never cured. The latex paint ... fine when cured ... was a disaster when it mixed in with the epoxy. And if the epoxy manufacturer won't recommend it, I'm not going to waste my money trying it (I waste enough on my own ideas!)

I really think Dave oversteps when he talks about using it as a medical cure. Its one thing to delve into an area where he was an engineer (chemicals), but quite another to use that same aura of authority to tout that it cures rashes and bedsores. I'm sure he is well intentioned, but the "law of unintended consequences" might cause someone real harm when they slather it on Grandma. I would check with a medical professional ... not a chemical engineer ... for medicinal uses of antifreeze.

But as a rot cure? Killing the spores? I wish I could find the Jeagles (sp?)article on wood preservatives and the comparison to antifreeze. But in that type of application, perhaps the risk of harm is less, and its once again "builder's choice."

[Bill]

I wish I could find the Jeagles (sp?)article on wood preservatives and the comparison to antifreeze. But in that type of application, perhaps the risk of harm is less, and its once again "builder's choice."

I would bet if you wandered over to the WB Board and pointed your questions/concerns/comparisons to a person known as "THECHEMIST" you would get a fairly detailed reply. He is pretty good about replying about any chemistry concerns and usually can bring you right down to the molecular level of discussion. Quite knowledgeable. If you search for his replys on things you would easily have a years worth of reading. I will admit though, some of the replys, although seemingly accurate, can get pretty heavily into the chemical breakdowns and require further reading just to figure out what he just explained! Give it a shot, if nothing it will be an exercise in academics...

Cheers,

Bill

[Frank Hagan]

TheChemist does give a lot of detailed information. If I remember correctly, he didn't think much of Dave's antifreeze claims when it came up several years ago. The Jaegle article went further though, and validated some of what Dave is saying. I'll see if I can find it.

[Frank Hagan]

I did find one post regarding the addition of antifreeze directly to epoxy (formerly suggested by some as a way to put that anti-rot protection in the stuff directly ... I'm not sure, but from the context of the thread it looks like this was suggested by Dave Carnell at one time):

Epoxy and Antifreeze

But this doesn't address the rot-preventative claims like the Richard Jagels article did. When I find it, I'll post a summary.