Have plywood and plans

[bagneaux]

I have all the plywood and the plans to build a CS 17 or a Weekender. The problem now is money since I have some health issues which will force me to retire about 5 years earlier than planned and I must pay off the house. This will be the last boat I can build. I am forced to make a decision based on which can be built for the least money, or at least the best value if they are similar in cost. I know the CS 17 is a better boat, but is it that much better for the difference in cost? Are there some ways I could cut on costs for the CS 17? I know I could make wooden masts and use the laced on sails. I know some of you have built and sailed both and I would value your opinions. Thank you for your help.

[PAR]

Making your own poly tarp sails will save a substantial portion (15 to 20%) of the build costs. 'Glassing only the seams will also save a fair chunk of cash. Making most of your rigging pieces (blocks, cleats, etc.) can also cut into the overhead of the job. It'll take about 5 grand in materials to build either boat, with all store bought stuff. Some costs can be saved with meranti like Ray points out. Sails and hardware are places you can really eat into the total bill. Home made blocks are easy to make and pretty. No they don't have fancy ball bearing innards, but they work just fine, unless you're out to race someone. Home made sails don't set as well as manufactured, but the don't cost $700+ a set either. A staysail mule will set you back another $200+, so it's easy to justify making up a set. Hardware is about a grand in itself.

[Charlie Jones]

Having built both I'd be forced to agree with Ray. Go for the CS 17- MUCH more boat overall, and MUCH more versatile.

The Weekender is a neat boat, but it would have limitations the CS would not have.

And I don't think the hardware will run what PAR suggests- talk to Graham- they sell ALL the hardware needed for the CS boats- at a VERY good price. ALL the line also.

They also sell epoxy at what has been the very best price going

[Craig]

In your situation I would recommend the Core Sound.  Bargins are always avaliable for those who look long enough.  When I was rigging the Saralee I found line from a guy in Nova Scotia that was 20 cents a foot cheaper than anywhere in the US and that included the shipping.  PAR is correct that the rigging and sails may be the most costly part of building but shopping when you see a deal can save a lot.  Don't forget the possibly of cutting down some good used sails to fit your boat.  V/r Craig

[John Weigandt]

I have a 10 year old Weekender, and have logged quite a few hours in it, including 2 BEER cruises.  It is much more than just a "cutsie" boat.  It will take more than you might think at first glance.... that said....

If your criterion is to build a boat to daysail, and you're not needing the cabin to get out of the elements for a nap or an overnighter, then I have to admit that the core sound will sail circles around the Weekender.  (I know.. brent did just that at PIKL) 

Weekender does get you where you want to go, but not against a large chop upwind... Still, it is a much safer boat than some here would give it credit for.  Some will say it wont sail to windward at all... not true.. but the low aspect shallow keel needs some speed to develop lift, so chop destroys the forward momentum, and ghosting to windward doesn't work too well either..  not enough speed to develop the lift you need.  Winds from 5 mph to 15 mph are about perfect.    I've been out in much more, and my boat has never gone over.  Others have managed to capsize them, but you almost have to be trying IMHO.

If you had your heart set on a cabin.. I'd take a hard look at Graham's Belhaven 19..  You get the cabin, with the cat/ ketch performance. 

That boat didn't exist when I was building mine, and also the internet wasn't nearly as mature for searching out various designs, but I seriously considered building one before I found my Sanibel 18 2 years ago.  I'd still be sailing the Weekender as my primary, if my Bride hadn't wanted more creature comfort.

So if you're really one boat and one boat only... belhaven for it's cabin, or core sound for it's sailing ...

Weekender can be built quite cheaply though..  My figures are 10 years old, but I have a complete accounting of expenses less trailer on my web site

http://www.riverbendvet.com/newweb

I built mine with non marine ply for about 2k..  10 years ago.  had significant rot on the stem (not plywood, and was builder error that admitted water from above) last year.   

I am confident I could bring one in in non marine for around 3 k today  But today's non marine, you really have to watch and "pick the bin"

I've built 6 boats.. none of them marine ply.. the oldest is 24 or 25, the most recent launched last summer.  All still in service.

But if this is your ONE SHOT..  use the marine

John

[John Weigandt]

And to really muddy the waters... If you want to build a 200 dollar boat... to see whether this boatbuilding thing is really for you.  Look at the "summer breeze" plans .. They're free.. You can build one in lumber yard ply and dimension lumber for the chine logs.  Use polyurethane glue from a tube, and slap on some water based enamel paint..    Fished all last summer with my son out of his... Will put on the sail rig this summer.   You could get on the water in a month or so..  and continue contemplating which "ultimate" boat you will build. 

I really can't wait to see how this one sails..  It rows quite nicely, and Motors decently.  I'll post a picture, if I get another break this afternoon

Oh and did I mention that at PIKL and one BEER, we were towing a B and B Birder kayak  ;D ;D ;D    Didn't do much for the Weekender's windward ability, but it shure was fun

John

[John Weigandt]

Here's the summer breeze before finishing out for a "seat position trial"

[bagneaux]

Wow. What a great response. Thanks to all of you. I have visited John's and Ray's websites in the past. This will be my 10th or 11th boat to build. I have lots of 1088 meranti (1/2", 3/8", 1/4") to build either boat in my 16 x 24 shop. I was thinking that the weekender would be a cheaper build but was wondering if the additional cost was worth spending on the CS 17. I actually emailed Graham at B&B about the Belhaven which is what I would love, but that was before my being forced to reconsider because of a medical condition. I figured that it would cost at least an additional $2000. In 2004 I saw a Princess 22 at the Mandeville, Louisiana Wooden Boat show and fell in love with it. Did Charlie build that boat? I currently have a Bolger Surf and an 8' v-bottom pram of traditional construction. I need a boat which I can sit in, but not on the sole of the boat. I had considered a Nancy's China at one time but have reconsidered due to cost(I did purchase 12 oz. biaxial tape and 25 yards of 6 oz. cloth to build her). I have even looked at the CLC Pocketship. I currently have plans for the CS 17, Weekender, Stambaugh Catbird 16, Devlin's Nancy's China, and Bolger Micro. Now that I have moved to north Louisiana, the Micro is not feasible. I actually completed the hull, but lost it to Hurricane Rita in 2005. Although I would like a cuddy, it is not essential. I sail mainly on local lakes and my son lives on the Mississippi Gulf Coast for that occasional voyage into Mississippi Sound. Winds here are light in the summer. My wife would like a cuddy, but a dodger may well do the job. I have even thought of adding a cuddy to the CS17. It sounds like the CS 17 would be worth the extra expense. I have made several polysails before. The sail on the Surf is from Duckworks. That may be an option too. Again, thank you. I would love to hear any other suggestions. I have a friend who may buy the 1/2" ply and the plans for the Weekender. I guess I need to sell the biax tape and the extra plans.

[Charlie Jones]

;D ;D

Yep- Charlie built that Princess 22.

;D ;D

And  a CS 20 and a CS 17 and 2 Birders and a MiniPaw. I've done a good many of Graham's boats. Well designed, great response if you have a question, and I love talking with Carla and Graham ;D

Keep the Biax- it'll work just fine filleting the chines on a CS

Here's Pilgrim anchored at Pass Cavallo, Matagorda Bay, one sunrise. Picture shot from Tehani, our Rhodes Meridian 25