Trying to Make Up My Mind -- BRS 15 V CS15

[W. Micawber]

Greetings, I am new to the forum. I have spent some time going through the old posts and would be interested in what people have to say about helping me choose a design that will fit my parameters, financial circumstances and sailing conditions.

First, I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I have built two plywood boats. I am by no means a master wood worker, but I do well enough, I reckon. I also do most of my sailing on Lake Macatawa in Holland Michigan, although I do trailer elsewhere and occasionally get out on Lake Michigan (I don't own a motor so think it more prudent not to sail through the channels to the big lake. Rules of the road don't exist here where motor boaters are rather rude, and I'd rather live to sail another day, if you catch my drift). Macatawa is a rather largish lake that can kick up some good chop. Even when I choose my weather, it is not unusual for the winds to kick up to 20 mph in the afternoon and raise a 2ft chop. When you add motor boat bobble to this, things can get pretty lively (there are some from Michigan here, I see, and you will know what I am talking about).

So, here is my dilemma. I am looking for a lively sailer that can take these conditions. Even though I am not a racer, I do like a bit of speed. I will not own a motor, so the boat has to be able to be rowed (which happens only when the wind dies or I have an equipment failure :). Also, it needs to be able to accomodate my wife and sometimes 2 other folks for day sails without being too cramped or over powered by the weight. I know I am asking a bunch out of a 15 footer, but I have looked at the S12 and think it too small, and the CS17 is too big. I am trying to down size and simplify. I hope you can appreciate that.

Sorry for the rambling. All thoughts are welcome, especially from those who can give me a comparative view of the BRS15 and CS15.

Kind Regards,

WM

[Tim]

My grandfather built a plywood boat in Grand Rapids many years ago before we had such good design and material choices. You want to sail in some wind and with 4 people on board so the CS15 sounds like the way to go.  Its just a little larger, with a few inches more beam, a newer design, and designed primarily for sailing. 

You might want to look at the CS-17 again if your going for the big water.  Everyone always thinks they should have gotten just a little larger boat. But I think the 17 is not too large for most.  One person can handle the 17's masts and it can fit in a standard garage or carport.  A little harder to row and more cost of materials to build- thats true.

Enjoy the journey- Tim

[Tom Lathrop]

I built and sailed one of the first BRS 15's that was intended primarily as a sailboat.  It is the one on the B&B website, the Loon.  It is a great boat that sails, rows and powers well.  That said, the CS 15 or 17 are better suited to sailing in bigger water.  For two people I would choose the CS 15 but if I planned on have more than two along very often, I would choose the CS 17.  Neither is as well suited to power as the BRS but can accept a small outboard. 

[Ken_Potts]

  I think the Core Sounds were designed for a bit more security in heavier conditions than the Bay River Skiffs.  They have watertight compartments to preserve bouyancy in the case of a swamping (a rare event with these boats).  You can always ask Graham which boat he recommends but I think if you're going to sail regularly with one or two people and have the occasional extra couple aboard the CS17 is an ideal size.  I usually sail mine alone and feel pretty good about it but with two people aboard the boat feels great.  I've had three adults and two small kids aboard and we were a little cramped but not by much.

  I haven't installed the oarlocks or made the oars for my boat yet but if I'm not rowing against wind (when I'd be sailing anyway) I'm sure the boat will move along nicely under oar power.  When the wind has quit me completely I have used the main sprit-boom as a sort of kayak paddle.  We didn't move fast but we moved.

  I chose to build the CS17 over the CS20 (the CS15 didn't exist at the time) purely because of the building space I had available and since then I've found that the 17 is really ideal for my purposes.  I'd probably make a similar statement if I'd chosen to build the 15 instead of the 17  ;D but if you're going to have frequent foursomes give some consideration to the 17.

[Charlie Jones]

Having built a 17 and a 20, I'll tell you the 20 is a LOT more boat. MUCH larger than the 17. If I were building one for myself, it would be the 17 for sure. That's a very nice boat. I know nothing personally about the BRS 15 or the CS15 though.

[DISTELTK]

I live in Michigan and have sailed a 16 ft glass boat in Lake Michigan out of Pentwater.  I know how it is to try to use the channel to the big lake.

I had a small motor.

I built a BRS 15.  It was not difficult and the help from the forum and Graham was exceptional.

The boat is easy to rig and sails easily solo.  I have sailed in Lake Lansing, Higgins Lake and Coldwater Lake in southern Mi.

My only problem with the boat is that it can take spray from charging into waves.  If you plan on bigger water with 1 - 2 ft waves the CS should be dryer.  I am thinking about increasing ways to add some type of splash deflection system up front.

I have oars mounted forward  and it is difficult under waves or wind.

I was rowing solo with 10+ mph wind to test the rowing capabilities.

Tom D  Lansing Mi,  Port Charlotte Fl. 

[Charlie Jones]

Yes Ray, I got it - responded almost immediately.

Yeah- in the shop or stored it's a BIG boat. I had several folks come by while I was finishing it, who had also been by to see the 17. THEY were astonished at the increase in size. For the most part every one felt that unless you had a large family or were big people (Like "Shorty" Penn ;D) the 17 was plenty of boat.

This was a group of boat builders from the Duckworks Messabout both years. Shorty, Chuck, and a few others.

And for a smaller person like myself, the mainmast on the 20 gets to be a bit much to pick up and stab- particularly on a windy ramp- I feel the tabernacle is almost a requirement on the 20- at least in this area.

[W. Micawber]

Thanks to all for their helpful responses. I will have to think about it some more. It may be true that the CS15 is a better rough water boat, but the BRS is prettier. Kind of reminds me of a Windmill. As to going for the CS 17, I must say that I single hand 85% of the time and rarely have a foursome, although the boat should handle that eventuality. So, I don't reckon I need the bigger boat even though it would be nice to have all that sprawl space.

WM

[W. Micawber]

Tom D, Your rowing difficulties with the BRS sound similar to mine. It would be a good idea to set up a second rowing station aft the cb trunk. I have a rowing station near the fwd end of the cb trunk. In winds around 15mph, the boat is a bear to row because there is too much weight fwd and I have to fight the boat which wants to turn into the wind. Moving aft in those conditions will be helpful, and you will find rowing to be more a pleasure than a pain. I hope this helps. WM

PS If you come out West, or I come East, I'd like to meet you and get a good look at your boat.

[Dale Niemann]

WM,

I sail my CS 17 Lively.  It does not have all the sprawl space you mentioned.  It can seem a little tight with 4 on board.  One to three seems about right.  She handles waves nicely.

Don't forget to consider the Lapwing.   It is about the size you are saying you want and it will be a very beautiful boat.  I don't think Graham is selling the plans yet, but he must be getting close.

Good luck in your decision making process.

Dale

[Guest wwbaginski]

Tom D,

"My only problem with the boat is that it can take spray from charging into waves.  If you plan on bigger water with 1 - 2 ft waves the CS should be dryer.  I am thinking about increasing ways to add some type of splash deflection system up front.

Being awared about that I'm going to put a small folding canvas spray cuddy on my BRS17 (under construction) to protect a crew at least. Have you got big spray sitting at helm either?

[JeffM]

Complaints of crew on being wet even in moderate winds and waves was one factor in my adding a semi-hard cabin.  I'd never had a cabin boat before, and was surprised at how much drier I was, and how much wind it deflected.