Greetings, all

[dale]

This is my first post to this forum.  I've dropped in a few times to browse, but just joined up.  I've been a regular poster on the TSBB for a long time.  By way of intro, I'm just past the 1/2 century mark, have been sailing since 1999.  I'm on my second sailboat - a Macgregor 26C.  I sail the waters of Watts Bar Lake in TN mostly.  More pertinent to this board, I built my first boat last year - a modified Bateau Nutshell dinghy which I rigged for sailing:

The main reason I've joined this board is to get some ideas and feedback on a possible second build.  I have to run now but tonight I'll try to give you some of the things that are going through my mind.  Looking forward to hanging around some.

Dale

[Jim Stumpf]

Welcome Dale,

I've seen that boat before. Nice to see you over here from the TSSB.

Jim

NF 15 "Primrose"

[dale]

Well, here goes.  Let me give you some thoughts on the next possible build.  I'm looking to build a daysailer that I will usually single-hand though I may have my wife along occasionally and in a few years hopefully my grandson (he's one right now).  My budget and space are limited.  I believe a 14 footer (15 max) is all I have room for.  For my wife, stability and a safe "feel" will be important.  For the same reason, I'm looking to build a boat that has seats and not just sitting on the rail.  I do not plan to use a motor at this point so rowing will be necessary though that will not be the foremost use.  The two leading contenders to satisfy my wife are the Core Sound 15 (which most if not all of you are familiar with) and the Glen-L 14 (https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=442).  I would like both of these boats I believe.  I'm partial to the sloop rig but maybe because I haven't sailed a cat/ketch though.  I understand the concept of easier tacks with it but would two mainsheets clutter the cockpit?

From my perspective, if I build something, I want to be proud of it and make it a "looker".  I would love to build a lapstrake boat.    If I go down to about a 12 footer, I could build the Oughtred Acorn Skiff (http://www.woodenboatstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=150-043) which is stated to be a rower first, a stretched ducktrap Sunshine (http://www.duck-trap.com/2002sun.html) or a Catspaw (http://www.woodenboatstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=400%2D012).  I really like the Ducktrap Wherries (http://www.duck-trap.com/dtwplans.html) and have Walter Simmon's book about the Wherries and their differences on order.  He says the Duck Trap wherry is the easiest to build of the 5 he has designed (http://www.duck-trap.com/dtwherry.html).  It only has a 4' beam though and may be better suited to rowing as contrasted with his Christmas wherry which has a 4'10" beam.  Not sure though. 

I'm guessing the CS 15 or L 14 will be more stable but like the looks of the wherries and other lapstrake boats. 

Your thoughts and experiences are appreciated, especially concerning the stability factor i.e. the differences between the various boats mentioned.  (BTW - I did read the posts on the daysailer boat suggestions by pcuenin on the design forum)

[dale]

PS: I may not be checking back in until Monday; so I'm not ignoring anyone's response.

Dale

[dale]

Sorry, just one more thing. 

I've also looked at the Penobscot 14 (http://www.by-the-sea.com/archdavisdesign/davis_penobscot14.html) as a possible lapstrake.  Davis has a slightly different construction method using stringers.  How does this boat measure up to Iain and the Ducktraps' lapstrake boats?

[dale]

That lapwing sounds very interesting.  He must not have added it to his website yet.

[Greg Luckett]

Hello Dale,

Thanks for joining us and sharing!

Greg.

[RSdaCat]

Greetings right back atcha. ;D

If there is anything I have learned since my first post here.

These guys are all really supportive and will add fuel to any little spark of boat building idea you have. 

Airplane fuel.

[ScottWidmier]

Hi Dale!  Nice to see you made it over to this forum as well.  Didn't anyone warn you that boatbuilding is addictive!    We still need to link up sometime to show off eachother's boats.  I believe you have my email address and I do have some open weekends...heck, you could even help crew on my Mac 26D during one of our races if you wanted to.

As for the next boat to be built question be ready for a cascade of wonderful plans and conflicting ideas.  The fact that there is no one perfect boat leads to variety in homebuilt which makes it all so much more fun.  Let me put my two cents in now by focusing on a couple of your requirements, under 15' and comfortable for your wife.  To me, these requirements add up to a catboat which gives you the most volume in th shortest length resulting in excellent stability and very comfortable sailing for you and your wife.  I read somewhere that an extra foot of beam on a boat is like adding 5' in length and my experience bears this out.  So, a 14' catboat that has a beam between 6-7' will feel as big and stable as a 17' boat with 5 foot beam giving you a lot more boat in your limited build area. 

My first boat was a 14' flat bottomed Stevenson Projects designed Pocket Cruiser with 14' length, almost 7' beam, an 8' long cabin, and a 7' long cockpit (courtesy of a bridge deck).  That boat was so stable that I could walk my 200+ pounds down the rail and didn't have to worry about body placement when sailing...excellent for when I had small kids who couldn't stay still.  Many times I would take a full crew with 4+ adults and multiple kids.  The cabin was a great feature to both store stuff and give a place to shelter from the rain or for crew to take a long nap in.  I also overnighted comfortably with my wife on that boat.  Given the stability of that 14' boat and the fact that the crew didn't have to move around when tacking (and the ease of the cat rig), it always seemed to be the most popular with wives and girlfriends at sailing get-togethers.  I am sorry I sold it when I moved to Georgia  .  The stability of the 14' Pocket Cruiser is much-much greater than the 16' weekender and equal to the much heavier 21' Vacationer BTW.  All of this is meant to illustrate how a catboat might fit your needs best.

As far as catboat designs that are out there, I have mentioned the Stevenson PC but would suggest something with a multichine hull which helps to absorb some of the pounding from motorboat chop.  I love my 4 bottomed C12 from Bateau.com but if your boat will live on a trailer there is no reason to give up the extra 2-3 foot of length and volume though I will put some picts below just to show off  : .  Here are some to look at:

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jw/houdini/index.htm Welsford 13' Houdini

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/fatcat2/index.htm 15' Fatcat is a bit non-traditional but comfortable

https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=441 Glen-L 13' cat

http://www.woodenboatstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=400%2D047 really nice 14' catboat by Charles Whitholz

[dale]

Scott - Thanks for the tips.  I think I have looked at each of those suggestions and agree there are definitely some possibilities there, especially the L 13.  I'm afraid the Whitholz boat is too heavy and Fatcat is not to my liking.  In addition I've looked at the Tiny Cat http://www.instantboats.com/tinycat.htm but it has no inboard seats.  After seeing your C12 on TSBB and again here, I'm really interested in it.  I do have your contact info and am still looking for some time to hook up.  I've jotted down the dates of the Glen-L gathering and would love to go.

PS: I was warned but the building bug bit me long ago.  My problem is I'm not only thinking about my next build, but the next; and the next; and the .............

[ScottWidmier]

It does seem like the number of catboat plans out there is rather sparse especially given the benefits of maximum boat in minimum length.  I do like the C12 finding it just as quick as a 14' sunfish but able to be overnighted on.  However, since it lives on a trailer I do wish for a foot or two more length.  In a boat of this beam, a foot or two longer would make a huge difference in carrying capacity and stability!  However, it also would make it that much harder to row and the oars just that much longer...tradeoffs!  Maybe we need to campaign for someone to design a 13-14 foot open catboat...or just take a design like the C12 and scale up a bit! 

[ScottWidmier]

Saw a TinyCat on the Beer Cruise and it is a big 12' boat that could accomodate some interior changes.  Found another one that is a bit more slender but the Michalak Skat (http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/skat/index.htm) is another option to look at.  Again, all of these 12' boats could possibly be scaled up to give you a bit more room and stability.

[ScottWidmier]

Dale, I just read a short article in Small Craft Advisor (great magazine!) on Welsford's Houdini (http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jw/houdini/index.htm) and am rather impressed!  It is 13'6" long falling into what I would consider the sweet spot for small open catboats though its beam is a little narrower than traditional at 5'1".  It has a lot of freeboard being developed for the rougher waters around New Zealand and the interior could definitely be rigged similar to my boat including the coaming.  If my Little Gem wasn't fairly close in size to the Houdini I would consider building it as my next boat.  Of course, my kids have already called the next two boats to come out of my shop so I better get busy!