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[Guest Oyster]

Funny Ray, What bothers me the most is the poor quality of in stock plywoods, now being stocked in thicknesses of 1/2 or less. Not only is the faces like a worn out highway, but the cores are garbage, and in most cases, lack the amount of layers, and good core materials that gives plywoods it strength for a boat built to proper scantlings specified on the plans. Plywood takes on a new life when being bent and twisted, or contorted, which its not exposed to when being used in the flat and residential conditions, which also has some form of climate consistancies, too.

In my personal use of materials, and in past personal projects, it has been more of a challenge for me to make good use of perfectly good stuff, all be it soiled or twisted, with stuff that is normally scorned by Joe consumer, simply because I have had the luxuary of past experience working with flitch cut material, green, dry or aged woods laying in the weather for some time, from stacks of sawmill material, and did learn wood grains and selection, allowing me to really venture off the deep end in some projects.

I did and still do depend on a more selective process when doing any work for others, though, and still preach researching and doing what is appropiate for the project for the occasional or newcomer that suffers from wunderlust from plan and profile shots in magazines, though.

Those projects that you speak about do hit home for sure. But there are some suttle difference in pleasure boating versus get in the water working hulls for sure. I do not subscribe to suggesting that the average newcomer to the addiction go that particular avenue, or the avenue that I choose to go sometimes. But there are cases that most folks can use shorts, cutoffs, and less than perfect stuff, given some building methods in a project, techniques and some new age materials, saving bunches of money and time in the hunt, too. But these suggestions are mostly addressed per use basis for me.

FWIW, my fishing hull was an experiement, using 1/4 luan and 1/2" pink board foam, incorporating two styles building methods, and materials, and have stood the test of time for 12 years. I would never ever suggest this for anyone, though, and could cause personal harm care is not taken in the building process. The amount of weight I saved was not more than 100 lbs, probably, and actually doesn't ride as good as it would have if I had spent an extra 100 bucks for proper materials for the boat. But it was another challenge to do it and did not save any time doing so at all.

[capt jake]

50' LOD boat knocked out in extremely short time by two men with minimal tools.

Speaking of which; the Sockeye is tentatively scheduled to roll over around the first of April. 3-4 people, 2 months. :shock: I am guessing it at about 8,000 pounds at this point.

[Charlie Jones]

First on Oysters post- WHAT HE SAID!!!. I CONTINUALLY harp at people to buy the best wood they can find to build thier boat- PARTICULARLY if it's a bigger boat. The TIME you spend is far more costly than any materials and the top grade stuff just plain isn't THAT much more over all.

Greg- right now I've got a Core Sound 17 going- Just installed the keel this week and have the paint ordered. Should get that next week and will spray the bottom, then roll the boat and bring it in from the leanto, to the inside of the shop to finish the interior. Supposed to be shown at the Duckworks Messabout here at Magnolia Beach on May 13. I GOTTA hit that dead line because if I don't, we don't get to make our May/June cruise, and Laura would MURDER me. Da Pressure is on

Also the pressure is on because I've got a 23 footer scheduled in from Florida mid July for a total new interior.

Also have timber on the way from ANOTHER customer in Florida to build him a new bow sprit for his 21 foot gaffer- the one I did the mast for year before last ( or was it last year?)

Seems he found an over hanging tree limb over the road from a launch ramp to a rigging area- sangged the forestay and dropped the mast bang onto the back of the boat with out even a ding, but did a real number on the bow sprit- and covering boards up front, but those will wait til he brings the boat over next year for a refit.

[Greg Luckett]

I have a serious issue with people that think nothing about buying numerous sets of plans' date=' and before a piece of wood is cut, complains about how much work it is to find good wood, in some regions, or just too lazy and impatient to wait for good wood to be shipped in, in some cases, paying a total of around 200 bucks difference for the good stuff for under 20 foot hulls, at most, and go on the cheap, buying crappy big box junk, even giving up on the project because of the added work using the stuff, and in some cases purchasing more stuff because of cores nowadays, part the way through, or work their butts off trying to have a smoothe finish on the hull.

[/quote']

Quite a rant. Not sure who or what it is about though :shock: Perhaps we are all guilty?

[Guest Oyster]

Greg, rant at no particular individual at all. Sorry if it came across that way. After reading multiple threads by people in general, over the course of years, mostly all titled, "What is the best boat for me" or "Whats the best boat for my conditions" you get the point, many buying study plans and also full sets of plans, then to read that many find it pretty darn expensive when it comes to the initial beginning of the process, finding out that a single sheet of good plywood runs 60 to 70 dollars, and store bought of the same is around 20 to 30 bucks, I sometimes chuckle that no one actually understands that the process and the steps are the same for the hull .

There is also a reason why scantlings are written and drawn and thats also what a person is paying for when they purchase the plans in the beginning. But most never realize there are other factors involved then just a thickness of a piece of wood. That was actually my intention in the posting, ever so febble, I guess. :cry:

[Greg Luckett]

OIC , Oyster. I very much agree with you about this. I think people go through a learning process, most drop out early, but the really SICK ones, like me, keep going deeper into the processes of building boats. I fit your profile when starting. I was so very ignorant when I started to build my own boats without having my father or another expert pointing out what I should be doing next, and that was over 30 years ago. I did not build much of anything from when I was a Seabee to when I built the PK78 about 6 or 7 years ago. I asked a lot of really dumb questions as I tried to get an initial feel for building a boat. For me, it has definitely been an evolution and learning process.

I am sitting at home with a sick Benjamin, 2nd day for me this week, my boss is fussing about my rate of being absent, and I am wishing I could make a real living from my own shop. I could work here while watching over the kids too. Argh! What a day.

[Charlie Jones]

I always get some what amazed at the folks who buy a set of plans, then want to know if they can make the boat- longer? wider? taller? change from inboard to outboard? instead of plywood can I plank it? and on and on-

Jeez- if you are paying a guy for his expertise in design- BUILD the design. If you don't like it, find another or arrange for a custom design.

Now that's not to say that it isn't fun to PLAY with things, like Oyster does, and I do sometimes- that's the way we figure out if things work or not. And it's on MY nickel. But I would NEVER make changes or cut corners on a customers boat. Even if he wanted me to REALLY bad. I WILL make changes to basic structure IF, and ONLY IF the designer approves. Now on interiors and layouts, thats a different thing as long as it doesn't jeapordize the over all strength of the boat .

But GOOD materials just plain doesn't add that much to the over all cost of a boat- Just doesn't pay to invest a large amount of time- your irreplaceable time- and build a second rate boat.

And this has nothing whatsoever to do with, nor does it cast aspersions on, third world boat building and boat builders. That's an entirely different thing, and THEY aren't building for fun like most of the US builders are- They are building to survive. HUGE difference.

[Greg Luckett]

An example.....

I posed this question a couple of days ago to Pat Atkin, about the Vintage.

"I am thinking of building a Vintage but would like to use marine grade Merianti or Okume plywood for the planking. Since the plan was made long before plywood was invented, I wonder if this would be okay. I am

capable of making the necessary design changes...."boat builders preference" so to speak. I will be using epoxy resin for the glue."

The reply today:

"Pat passed your question on to me. Do you mean glued lapstrake plywood planking? That should work fine, but you probably shouldn't use wider planks, since Vintage is pretty shapely. You're on your own as far as the scantlings and framing, but if you look at what other designers have used for similar size boats you'll be OK. Keep Pat and I informed about your project. We especially like photos! <g>"

As you can see, this will take an experienced boat builder to accomplish, I think. The plan set is not too expensive, $45. Opinions?

PS, do you think we have hijacked Jack's thread too much, or is this a good intro to our group?

[Guest Oyster]

We especially like photos!

Yes we do too, you know, links and photos to what you are talking about. Or did I miss something while fumbling through those multiple plans?

PS, do you think we have hijacked Jack's thread too much, or is this a good intro to our group?

Yea, but he has gotten mighty quiet for some reason. Jack?

Gotta go back to work,,,,

[Greg Luckett]

Jack is either gone into lurking mode, or is gone off to work?

[capt jake]

He's waiting for donuts. LOL

[jack grebe]

still here......just in lurkin mode

[Craig]

Ther are only two good boats, the one you just sold and the one you are going to get/build next!!!