Should have been a sailing report

[Dave R1]

Bill and I had planned to sail today and give the motor a test but I had a small issue with the standing rigging to fix first. Since we weren't going to sail today, I got to do a few other things. One of them had to do with the roller furler.

I don't have any experience with the set up but I'm going to give it a go. I have a roller furler on the jib but I also wanted the jib club if possible to simplify sailing when needed. I still believe you can get a better set to the jib with the traditional two sheet arrangement but with the club, one person can manage the boat at least while sailing.

Here are a couple of pictures with the current jib arrangement.

First, with the jib out. For those who don't know or don't remember, my bowsprit is about a foot or 14" longer than the plans called for. This was to compensate for the additional 3 feet of mast height. The forestay was moved up and out to maintain the same fore triangle shape as the plans called for. This along with some additional length on the spars was intended to allow for more canvas, maintaining the same shape as the originals just increasing the area. I have since decided that the sails are plenty large for this boat and the boom and gaff were cut back to planned length. The added length on the mast is nice because it allows the hardware aloft to be spread out a bit.

Here it is furled. The geometry as it is worked out nicely for allowing the sail to furl properly with the club attached. We'll see how it is as far as sailing it goes. If needed, I can change over to the two sheet set up in about five minutes.

Here's the overall shot of the boat. It was a wee bit too windy to put the main up today.

Maybe I'll have a sailing report for Tim tomorrow.

[Tim Diebert]

It was a wee bit too windy to put the main up today.

...and why not? You must get to know the true meaning of trailer sailing.

Maybe I'll have a sailing report for Tim tomorrow.

Right, The Sail Report Coordinator requires it. :pirate:

[Tim Diebert]

I am with you on the whole longer mast thing. It is far too crowded in the hardware department up there. A lengthening of the mast is well up there on the list. Main intention is for the topsail....but wanting to get my gear up a ways is in there too.

I was really hoping to get the topsail done in time for next months cruise....and may still get it.

Got the industrial sewing machine to work well today making a new sail. That's because Daphne actually did it and not me.... :oops: So the sail part of the topsail program will be easy enough. Now it's getting the time to monkey around with the rest of it.

My oldest buddy gave me two bags of sails last year....I will have enough sail cloth to last me years. :shock:

[Mike Pennington]

That's cool Dave.

[Craig]

HAving a longer mast solves a host of problems. With my top mast arrangement Iwill need an extra set of side stays to hold the new Yankee and lapper, plus th topsail. A longer mast would preclude having all the extra steel. Depending on how this all works out I may need to fabricate an new mast. This is the fun part of all this for me. The expirementation. 8)

[Tim Diebert]

This is the fun part of all this for me. The expirementation.

I am with you on that one bud. Just so long as it doesn't get in the way of sailing. :roll:

I love to potter about building new stuff and playing with things. Better yet, I like to plan the things that I am going to do. Even when I go sailing I take a sack of tools and spares and fiddle about. That is, as long as it is not a frantic day as my last two have been. Today I get to try out my stage II Lapper. Made the first one(s) out of poly. I recut the used big boat jib to make my lapper yesterday/ Turned out great...not pretty, but a good shape.

I also converted the fore triangle to a different system that allows me to change headsails at will. Even though I had two headsails, I had to choose my weapon at launch or beach to change to a different sail. Now the forestay is fixed and slightly inboard of that I have a wired sail sustem where I can downhaul the tack and pull it inboard at the same time as slack the halyard...and bing, the sail is down quick as you can say it. Tie on your next choice, pull some strings and you off to the races. I have also created an inner staysail system with a wired luff. That is my next sail to make. But this one is meant to not be used as an combined staysl/jib (cutter) arrangement, but a stand alone storm sail.

The only reason i did all this like this is because I didn't want to spend the money on a roller furler just yet. This is an old timey system that most boats with bowsprits always or often used. I will be trying it out on the water today....so I better shut up, buy some beer and get going. Bye. :shock:

[Dave R1]

Thanks guys. I'm just back from giving the roller furler with the jib club a test sail. It worked like a charm. I don't think the jib sets as nicely as with the old two-sheet set up but it works plenty well when you don't want to be dealing with the jib on every short tack.

FWIW, I bought a roller furler and top swivel off of ebay for about 40 or 50 bucks. Tim, keep your eyes peeled. Another is likely to show up.

As to the taller mast, I had a 24' mast given to me by my in laws. Besides the desire to spread out the hardware I just couldn't bear to cut anymore off than absolutely required.

I don't think I'd ever bother with a top mast for the Weekender. There's too many lines as it is. That's just me, of course. Still, I appreciate the way the hardware doesn't interfere with the gaff jaws or anything else.

Tim, if you haven't done it, take a look at the Sailing Reports thread. I finally have one for you from today.

Dave

[Barry Pyeatt]

Dave, did you end up with that nice Schaefer furling system that was from out here in the Pacific Northwest? I was trying to snag that , but at the last minute but my computer locked up on me and by the time I got reloaded the auction was over. I did get a nice new Harken furler for my staysail/standard jib though. Still would like to get one of the Schaefer spools.

Glad to hear the new arrangement is working well for you on this outing. I think you will find that it works well all the time.

Tim,

If you do decide to bid on a furling sytem on ebay, let me know you are bidding though because I would hate to bid it up against you. :roll:

[Tim Diebert]

Won't be me Barry. I decided today I very much like what I have going...for now. Thanks for the thought though.

I like it when free stuff works well.....it goes with my skinflint nature.

[Dave R1]

Barry, I don't know what brand this furler is. There are no markings on it and the seller didn't give any indication. I'll see if I can get a picture of it and post it.

I did have to modify it a little. I ended up drilling out the hole for the pin on the bottom so I could get a shackle pin through it. The thing was intended to mount with on a tang or mayybe a sort of blade on the bow. I needed to be able to attach it via a shackle.

The other mod was to lengthen the furling line. The original is a piece of very tightly braided line maybe 1/16" dia. I ended up pulling about four inches of the core out of a piece of 1/8" braided hardware store line. then I managed to pull and push the 1/16" stuff inside and sieze the two together. Works great and slides right through the blocks.

Like I said, I'll see if I can get you a picture of the thing.

[kydocfrog]

Since someone mentioned trailer sailing...I'm starting to look for a trailer. What make/model are we looking at sitting under this remarkably attractive boat?

DocA

[Dave R1]

Doc, first, thank you for the compliment.

The trailer is a Karavan KB1250-50. I got it new three years ago for about $400. Here's a link to the manufacturer. http://www.karavantrailers.net/

The manufacturer shows

New Life Associates

131 Forest View Cove

Paducah, KY 42003

Phone: (270) 554-0303

Fax: (270) 554-8090

Googling the phone number gives a Brad Moore so I don't know what the scoop is on that.

Shoco, Inc. is listed as a dealer in NC.

P.O. Box 1825

Shelby, NC 28151

Phone: (704) 482-7329

Fax: (704) 487-0400

[Tim Diebert]

Busting in on R1's thread here:

Craig says:

With my top mast arrangement I will need an extra set of side stays to hold the new Yankee and lapper, plus th topsail. A longer mast would preclude having all the extra steel. Depending on how this all works out I may need to fabricate an new mast.

So what's a Yankee? And why would you need additional stays? Curious.

I am still planning on the topsail. I figured it would be awesome on those light days (sounds like a tv commercial.... :roll: )

Just so I can get a topsail up and working for the early part of this season, I am going to try and do it without extending the actual mast but add an extension to it. Kind of like we spoke of before. http://www.timtone.com/tt/ttphotos/PhotosSailingTopsail.htm

On the image of Charles Stocks boat on the bottom of that page, I just found out that on this 16 foot boat, the top sail spar is nine feet long. That is a substantial increase in area. :shock: Could be interesting. Charles writes that the top sail comes down as soon as there is a working breeze....I should say so.

[Dave R1]

Tim, I found this in one of my books.

Yankee, a light-weather foresail used in yachts, set on the topmast stay with its luff extending almost the whole length of the stay. It is similar to a genoa but cut narrower, with its leech not overlapping the mainsail as does that of a genoa, and with its clew higher than is normally the case with genoas. A yankee can be used in winds of up to about force 4 on the Beaufort scale.

There is a cross reference to a sail called a "ghoster" which it says extends the entire length of the topmast forestay unlike the yankee which doesn't quite make it to the masthead. the ghoster is used in winds up to force 2.

I'm thinking on our small boats, either of these sails ought to be taken in before the wind gets to force 2.

[Tim Diebert]

Actually, going by your descriptions there, I had planned on making and experimenting with something like a 'ghoster'...what I had been calling a reacher. All these names eh? Keeps you on your toes.....and keeps lubbers lubberly.

So a yankee is basically almost a lapper deep, but with a higher clew. Interesting. Thanks Dave.

In my case the plan is to not hank to the forestay, as none of my headsails will be doing that any more (they are all wired luffs now)

bu that the sail is attached at the tack and head and the clew is flown or poled out....I figured it would work from a beam reach on down. To gibe the sail you have to exchange tack for clew. A pain yes, but I have actually sailed with one of these on another boat. As long as there are two crew it is just time spent. And, like the previously mentioned sails, I expect this sail would come down at the first sign of a steady working breeze.

I see this sail cut almost like a flattish spinnaker or a chubby genny. Like this:

If anyone has any idea what shape two poly panels might need to be to create a similar shape, I am all ears. I plan to play with some poly versions then make one in light sail cloth eventually.

[Craig]

Tim I have completed the topmast as initially planned and will be running a fore stay up 80 inches above the current fore stay top position. The sprit extension is a bolt on for now. A new, one piece, sprit is warranted if this all works as expected. The Yankee is, as previously defined, for those medium air flow days. Additionally, I want a 150-160 lapper to fly on that stay for the really light days. I didn't bother with the load calculations for the bigger sail as everything is overbuilt anyway. Back stays may or may not be needed for the topmast but it is better to start with them than without. When finished the spared length will be about 28-30' so, unless I build a pulpit over the sprits I will either have to live with what I put on at the dock or set the foresail flying on the running rigging. Roller furlers are a bit pricey. I still have not spent much time on the topsail. It will look as we planned, however, should it be set flying or be self furling to the mast or gaff. There is an economy of space and motion of it can be setup on the spars prior to launch and the furled or unfurled at will. I think we are reaching the practical limits of how much junk we can get on the boats. They sure will look cool though!

[kydocfrog]

Dave, THANKS

Hot dog, like Paducah is just right down the road. Well, sorta. But hey, it is closer than Michigan.

Gotta check this out!