Outboard advice needed....

[Tim Diebert]

First sail of the season yesterday. forecast was for almost no rain (liars) cloudy with sunny periods(liars) and lots of wind (dead on). Took the day off and had a big adventure with Daphne.

Anyway, this has been happening for years, has been intermittent, but yesterday may have been the stimulus for correcting this irritating problem.

I have a vintage 6hp Johnstone. Awesome motor, smooth and relitivly quiet. I love the way this thing runs. First time fired up yesterday since October last year, fired up and ran beautiful on the 2nd pull. I've owned this motor since 1980 and it is a 1971 vintage. Ran the same all the way through. Other than change plugs and use fresh gas/oil and change the leg oil, I have done nothing to it. I recon I could bust a gut and sink some time into this little beasty.

Anyway, what is does is: You are fired up, motoring along, no worries, and she dies, not slow, but fairly quick like. Squeeze the primer bulb and a pull or two and off we go again. This can happen every few minutes or so. If you repeatedly squeeze the bulb, it will not stop...for some reason the bulb goes soft after a few seconds.

I do have the vent of the tank open. When the vent is not open, it let's you know pretty well right away.

Tank is new-ish and the gas line and bulb is newish (about three seasons).

Any ideas?

[Dave R1]

Tim, you say the bulb goes soft after a few seconds. Do you mean it collapses when you squeeze it and then won't reinflate? If so, I would be thinking of the fuel line between the pickup in the tank and the bulb. I'm guessing there's something plugging the pick up.

Just a guess of course but that's where I'd start.

[Guest]

Tell me about your tank.

[Tim Diebert]

Do you mean it collapses when you squeeze it and then won't reinflate?

No, it reinflates when squeezed....and keeps the motor going. It just goes soft if you leave it alone when the motor is running.

This is the fuel tank I have

This is all it says about the tank.

"Ultra 6 our premier fuel tank for maximum performance Tempo fuel tanks utilize advanced manufacturing techniques All styles meet Coast Guard and ABYC requirements Features a molded one-piece construction without seams or gaskets to keep water out and fuel in. Large comfortable carry handle. "

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[Guest]

Next thing is to remove the cap on the tank and attempt to run it. Many times fuel lines will break down from the inside, or even a bit of trash has been pulled up in the small opening. Try removing the hose and blowing through it. Check the little bitty pickup tuber that normally is at the bottom of the pickup line, usually can be viewed by the tnak cap hole and see if you have trash that has gathered in the tank. Is the gas old? It could have varnished in the line, also.

Old unleaded gas turns to jelly overtime, especially in small areas such as the fuel line.

[Roanoke Islander]

Good afternoon , Tim!

From what you have described I think that I would look for an air leak (hose is sucking air) at the connection to the tank or inline prior to the bulb. It sounds like the bulb is soft since it has air in it rather than fuel. Fuel feels hard since liquids don't compress.

Good luck,

Tom

[Craig]

Tim I have been using the same tank for 6 years now. I would look to the fuel lines and the connections between the QD fitting on the motor and the carb. It could also be a bad check valve in the bulb letting the gas in the hose run back into the tank. Disconnecting the QD and pumping up the bulb will rule out the engine lines if the bulb goes soft. Your are then left with the check valve and the items the other guys have mentioned. The QD at the tank may also be leaking air.

[Tim Diebert]

Thanks very much everybody!

I will get at trying all of these things this evening. I will let you know how it goes or what I might find.

Cheers.

[Tim Diebert]

Took the whole contraption apart. Drank a bunch of gas. mmmmmmmm

A lot of that stuff is under a small amount of pressure you know. My nice woodworking shop is dang stinky today.

All the lines were fine, the pickup tube was fine...had to be the pumper thing. So I bought a new one and hooked it all up. Until I can run the motor, I don't know if we are fixed yet.

I am not sure how to check for air leaks...but if the system is still doing it after the new bulb....I guess that will be the next step.

I will keep you posted I recon.

Next fix is a leak....in the hull.

[Dave R1]

Tim, I believe there are check valves in the bulb. If so and if you haven't got your gas line filled with gas, plug the tank side of it with something and squeeze the bulb a time or two. It should remain collapsed and not reinflate. You could also plug both ends and submerge the whole thing. Squeeze the bulb and watch for bubbles. this would let you check for leaks between the bulb and the engine end of the tube.

Beware that if the leak is on the tank side of the bulb the water will be drawn into the tube and bulb which you don't want.

When we have a leak in the absorber assembly (breathing portion) onm an anesthesia machine, we plug the openings and submerge the thing in a deep tank of water. Then we pressurize the assembly with a squeeze bulb and look for the stream of bubbles.

Good luck with that and the leak in the hull. What's that from?

Dave

[Tim Diebert]

Dave. I have already squeezed in some gas...at least it feels like it.

I guess I could drain the thing and do the water test. I would be nice to know if there are any air leaks. Though this test may not tell you if the air leak is in the area of the bayonet connection or seal.....unless I took the male fitting off the motor and the tank, hooked them up and plugged the in and outs on those.....??? Na...maybe I will just go use the thing and see what happens.

I can tell you this new bulb, though it is made by the same people (tempo), it looks and feels quite different.

Oyster. I took all the lines apart and blew through them. I always start the year with new gas and oil...unless I distinctly remember that I remembered to put some Stabil in there. This year I have about three gallons of mixed fuel I have to find a way to get rid of. Thinking of adding small amounts into the van now and again to use it up.

Tom. Thanks. The air thing is what I was thinking all along. But I will do this in steps. I have replaced the bulb so far. Where I live is remote with just a wee town. I was shocked to actually find that part here.I have to order such fittings as the Johnson female QD parts. If I was going to the city anytime soon, I would just buy some and be done with it...but, as you say, it could be the males either on the motor or the tank.

[Guest]

Find a friend that may have another tank and try it, or take your complete setup to someone else that may have a simular hookup to elimnate external problems before you start just buying a bunch of stuff if thats is possible, and maybe you can eliminate all external problems. I hate just parts replacements or as we call it here, shooting from the hip.

[Tim Diebert]

Find a friend that may have another tank and try it, or take your complete setup to someone else that may have a simular hookup to elimnate external problems before you start just buying a bunch of stuff if thats is possible, and maybe you can eliminate all external problems. I hate just parts replacements or as we call it here, shooting from the hip.

It might be possible to do that Mike. It is a small place I live in, not many folks around. Plus I am a bit of a Hermit and don't know a lot of people really. The people I do know are musicians....and maybe two boat owners. They both have Hondas. (mine is a Johnson)

I would prefer to do it your way and not just replace all these bits and pieces if I don't need to.....but I am not sure I have a lot of choice.

After posting to this the other day...I went out behind the shop to take the system apart...then heard my neighbour, Jake, messing around in his back yard over the alley. He is a retired mechanic, so I asked him what he thought. He said, " go to Walmart and buy a new system, that oughta fix it". He worked for the city of Grand Forks...and I guess had a good budget to work with.

(BTW, the closest Walmart to me is 2 1/2 hours away)

[Tim Diebert]

Dave Said:

Good luck with that and the leak in the hull. What's that from?

Turns out it is from the builder being a bit lazy or blind when taping the starboard chine. (No offence Rob you lurker you) Once I removed all the paint over a four foot section (3 " above and below the chine), there were three major sections where there was no cloth and quite a void. Looks perhaps like he did not fill this area before glassing...and then sanded through the glass. Anyway, it was only tight because paint was sealing it. At some point, the paint blew open and allowed water in, and then up into the boat. It kind of percolated right at where the midship hull side buttblock sits on the chine log. Once the glass is breached on something like this, the joints are not made well enough to be water tight. Good thing the water did not travel very far and did not disturb the surrounding glass. It is all quite sound and well bonded. Just these few wee 'voids'. So I will just fair, fill, fair and glass the chine again, fill fair and paint. No big deal.

It probably doesn't help that I have 240# of ballast in there and sail the boat fairly hard at times. That might be what caused the paint seal to pop...?

[Tim Diebert]

I checked both hoses, both female hose fittings and the pickup tube for blockageness. All clear. So I hunted around town and managed to find a new bulb....oh wait a minute...I already said all this above. :shock:

So OK, sailed yesterday, blew like crazy all day, but did use the motor for about mile just to test the fuel system and it worked great! Although, when I cranked it up to full throttle, it did die after a few minutes. Though I don't usually run it that high (being a 6hp), I am still wondering why it did that. Either way, it is a vast improvement over the old deal. Thanks for the help folks. Knowing me, it will most likely stay this way until something else goes wrong.

I also had a dry interior (of the boat) for the first time in a long time. What a luxury. I wish I had noticed it was a hull breach rather than assuming it was the case. DOAH! :x