Whiskey Pole

[Tim Diebert]

I am taking an informal pole as to show how many whiskey drinkers this forum has.......

OK, sorry.

I always thought what I called a whiskey pole was actually a whisker pole. Could be that the guy that I learned from screwed me up....

What I was wondering is, what any of you creative characters out there do for an inboard attachment point for your whiskeR poles?

On a mast with sail track rather than lashings or hoops, you have a kind of pad eye on the forward or leeding edge of the mast...often on a track for vertical adjustment. This wont work on my mast because of the mainsail lashings. I have (maybe) come up with a solution, but I am wondering what folks have been doing.

Me? I have been just clipping the inboard end to whatever is handy...and it doesn't work well at all. I love the new lapper for down wind and want to have a functional whisker pole. Now I am thinking of making a light reacher or ghoster as well.

Hey John B. you out there man?

[Dave R1]

Tim, here's just a thought. Suppose you inlet a couple of keyhole hangers (or a similar thing) so they are flush with the surface of the mast. (See the picture)

An appropriate fitting on the end of the whisker pole would drop into it. To keep the fitting from leaping out, you could mount a little pivoting plate above the hanger. The plate might be shaped so as to latch on the lower screw in the hanger.

[Tim Diebert]

Thanks Dave. That is very similar to what I had in mind....but way easier to actual do.

Where have you seen such things for sale? I don't recall seeing anything like this at a hardware store.

Yes, something like this would work.

I have an old handle from something....I can't remember what...maybe a window washing thing. Anyway, it is light metal and telescoping (sp?)...or adjustable for length. I figured I would just set whatever fittings were required into epoxy.

Cool.

[Dave R1]

Tim, I found the picture by doing a google search. I just took the first one to come along. I would guess you could get something like that from Lee Valley. They aren't very big so you might want to consider that. If you can get some stainless plate (or even some of that bronze) I don't know why you couldn't make something like that. It would be a fairly simple thing to drill a few holes and then cut the pieces to size.

I've never looked for them at my local hardware store but if you have trouble getting them and don't want to make them, I could go and have a look.

[Tim Diebert]

Good one ray

That's almost exactly what I have been doing.

Thing is the pole I now have is too short for the lapper, and I figure I could have much better sail shaping options with an adjustable pole that sits basically level with the clew. That way it will work with any of my sails.

I have never used my boat hook pole as a boat hook yet, it has really been my whiskey pole :? ....so I figure I will leave that one at home and take the new one.

Dave, great idea. I have lots of 1/8" brass sheet around here and often do metal fab for my work related stuff. I could cobble something together that way. I like it.

If I had your cad drawing expertise I would show you what I had in mind, but I am thinking a version of your idea is better and removes less wood. My mast is just a slender wee thing and I don't want to create a weak point just for this.

[Dave R1]

Thanks for the compliment, Tim.

Since you don't want to weaken the mast any more than you have to, I would say make the recess for the plate and for the fitting on the end of the whisker pole. Then epoxy the plate in place rather than screwing it. At least that would save the screw holes. Under cut the wood surrounding the plate and put a back bevel on the plate so there is effectively a dovetailed key of epoxy all the way arouund the plate. Oh, and fill the recess for the pole fitting with wax so that the epoxy won't go there. You can get the wax out later with a hair dryer and some paper towel.

[Tim Diebert]

Holy Crap Martha....that is some clever technique you got there Mr. R1.

Mission impossible type stuff.

Considering the fitting would be under compression, that is very good advice. Once I am all done and get to use this miracle of modern technique.....I will take all the credit for the sheer cleverness.

Give that lad a Gold Star and send him to the head of the class. :idea:

Thanks. Great advice and great help. The Forum strikes again. Invaluable.

[Dave R1]

Aw shucks. <kicking the dirt with a toe> :oops:

I had to run off and do some work as soon as I finished typing that last bit. Can you believe it? Someone would interupt me with work to do? Sheesh!

Anyway, I was thinking about the wax. You wouldn't need to get too excited about removing all of it either. A little wax on the wood would be good for it.

Remember to make some photos of the job and post them. Now, having written that, I suppose I'll have to take some pictures of my new roller furler.

By the way, I'm an idea guy. You know, "feed fish mayonnaise." That kind of stuff.

[Tim Diebert]

Your Bio says Biomed.....so you are doing the forum thing at work.....ah ha.

Me too.

In my work, I love to take the idea guys idea....and make it a reality.

So we make a good team.

How are you making out with the topsl idea? I am still doing it, but need to just complete a whole bunch of stuff just to get back on the water first.

I actually have several sails I want to do, but the topper is first on the list.

[John B]

gidday Tim. I just have jaws on the inboard end of the pole. jam it in against the mast between the hoops. Topping lift on the pole and the general sheet tension keeps it on there.

[capt jake]

I quit drinking, so I can't help you much. But there does seem to be a lot of good information provided. :)

[Tim Diebert]

John, thanks. That also makes perfect sense. Simple and effective.

Wow. Dave, whadayathinkofthat?

I could not envision my tiny sail requiring a topping lift....hasn't so far, but I know that is the correct way to do it.

You know, the jaw idea would serve double duty as well. Could be quite handy for the next time I break a leg.

Great stuff John....but how much whiskey do you drink?

Agreed Jake. A veritable bottomless well of imformation we have in this here forum.

[Dave R1]

Tim, fortunately for all involved, life support equipment is quite dependable. I work on anesthesia machines, physiological monitoring and respiratory equipment. Some days I run like crazy. Other days I feel like the Maytag repairman. But it's a good job.

Only problem is I can't get my boat into the shop to work on it.

As to the tops'l, I haven't given much thought to it lately. Last summer I had one day when it would have been nice to have a tops'l but otherwise it was always too windy--sometimes too windy with even the reef taken. :shock:

I had originally left the boom and gaff long enough for a larger main but last week cut them down since I've decided I won't make a larger main. Maybe I've gotten to be kind of timid. I just don't like the idea of running the boat hard with my soon to be one year old on board. He sailed with us last summer everytime we went out. He didn't get wet and I was sure glad of that.

My projects for this year are to get an aluminum shoe on like Bill Paxton did. The aluminum is ready to go on. Motor mount and wiring for a trolling motor. Roller furling on the jib (I've got that assembled. Just waiting until I can put the mast up to fit it to the boat.)

As to John's jaws and topping lift, it sounds good to me although there's already plenty of lines running down the mast. The jaws against the mast between hoops makes sense. I also like the idea of the topping lift supporting the end of the pole. If things loosen up or, like me, you're clumsy while standing on a pitching deck, it would keep you from losing the pole.

You could use the aluminum telescoping pole thing with the jaws on it.

[John B]

I need a topping lift because its quite a long pole. you could just have a line which toggles around the mast just to safe it up.... to attach the jaw end so it can't flick off.

[Tim Diebert]

Dave, it really does sound like that last thing you need is more sail.

You are fortunate to be in a consistently windy place. What water do you sail?

Me, I have the good fortune to be forever changing up and down for conditions. I am real tired of bobbing around when I want to stay out until the wind shows up...so I would like some big planks for those days....thinking a light weight reacher or blooper of some kind.(along with the topsail) Not sure how yet....like how do you gybe one of those things over when the tack is at the end of the bowsprit? Out on a buddies 'modern' boat and he just swaps tack for clew and swaps sheets....easy when the tack hooks to the bow and not a stick 4 feet over the water.

Anyway, I am thinking about it.

At the same time, I get days that have blown 20-30 for hours, and like to stay out. Even double reefed and jib is too much sail in that case(with two aboard it is OK), so I am thinking a wee staysail or spitfire.... and maybe a trysail...one with it's own wee gaff you can roll the sail up on and stow.

I am doing at least one of the big lakes this summer, a ten day cruise with my 24 year old, Zach. I have online access to the wind records on that lake (lake Okanogan) going back 50+ years, and it commonly blows upwards of 30k there and with a much longer fetch...so I would like some much smaller sails for that possibility. And some much bigger ones for the light days....keep moving.

Yes, the jaws idea could be the ticket....and as you Dave wrote about the possibility of it falling off the mast...I was thinking of having a line around the back....and here John B. comes up with that idea. And I think I would work that in with the crutch or crotch or jaws. Maybe design the jaws so they go about half way and have a tightish shock cord run around back...? Call it an Adjustable Whisky Crotch Pole. I like it.

I can well imagine a whisky pole(I mean Whisky Crotch Pole) on Waione is right longish.....and a topping lift would be the thing. Do you have a separate topper just for this John...or you utilize the one off the main boom? You probably have jacks for the main....Just curious.

[John B]

Tim, Its a seperate topper . just a light line because I don't run spinnaker. The pole was made in a hurry because of a classic regatta we entered in 2000.I inherited a big jib which I intended to use just for reaching / running and I made the pole quick. It's a bit of a laugh really because its western red cedar( not what you're supposed to use),glued up with gorilla glue and I cored out some its middle as well to save some weight. The first time one of the crew picked it up he got himself psyched up for a big lift and nearly threw it into the mainsail . it was a bit lighter than he expected .

[Barry Pyeatt]

Tim,

I don't know if you have seen this or not. Looks interesting for a whisker pole.

http://home.mindspring.com/~aljacobs2/id6.html

[Tim Diebert]

That is dang cool Barry, thanks!

I might be able to use some of that.

I went out to the boat to measure up for this little project and discovered that I should have done this sooner.

Turns out, as brilliant as Daves idea is, I would have had to go with the Adjustable Whisky Crotch Pole version anyway, as I forgot that in the area that the mast end of the pole would live....is where my high tech glassfibre mast support is. This is basically a 1/4" thick custom made fiber glass sleeve (tapered like the mast) that slides over the mast hinge once the mast is up...or slides up to let the mast hinge back down. The bottom of the sleeve naturally rests on the gooseneck so there is about a foot of the sleeve on either side of the hinge when supporting the mast.

It works great, but it sits right where the Adjustable Whisky Crotch Pole jaws will have to go. So I will have to keep that new radius in mind I recon....

Oh...now that I think of it....I could build something more like the R1 Special right into the mast sleeve.....not having to monkey around with my slim wisp of a mast. That could be cool....and it would have the added bonus of a rotating fitting! Ha. I wouldn't need two fittings, just rotate the pole, fitting et all when gybing the sail over. I think perhaps one of my other personalities was thinking well ahead on this...and was just waiting for my slower personality to catch up. Inspirational Insanity.

This thread has been fun. Thanks for all the help folks.

Funny story John.

So you folks in NZ import Western Red? I can't imagine what you must pay for it. Great material. (or do you grow a version of it there?) I use it occasionally for guitars.....and boat parts. Actually, the new rudder I just made is local Larch. Sawn by a local sawyer buddy of mine a few years ago. Air dried, perfectly quartersawn, 14" wide 2" thick, and mmmmmmmm nice. It was meant for guitar stuff (don't tell anyone that is sounds very nice) , but ended up being a rudder. One confused piece of wood.

[Tim Diebert]

I got this rascal done and actually used it very briefly on Tuesday.

It worked great. It will work better once I get the bungee around the back of the crotch.

I epoxied the clip end to the pole and bolted on the crotch piece. Quick and dirty. It adjust from where it shows in the images to 2 feet longer.

Daphne reminded me where I got the pole. My Grandmother gave it to me a few years ago because she bought a new one. It was some kind of washing brush on the end for cleaning her tub and shower. It extended out so she could reach stuff. She was about 98 at the time.

Funny thing, my boat is named after her.

[Dave R1]

Hey, Tim that looks like it works quite well. I imagine one of those things wouldn't be that much money even new. Lightweight, simple; what more could one ask?