My new 9.9 Honda

[Mike Pennington]

Well I finally did it, I went out and spent $2200 dollars on 9.9 hp Honda. 20 inch shaft.

Craig, I hope you see this. I have a question.

How many inches from the bottom of the boat is your cavitation plate. The instructions say for sail boats it should be at the water level. I can guess, by laying a string at the dirty water mark :roll: but a hint would help. I realize trim will be effected and I am adding a second deep cycle battery up front that was just given to me by my son. Gee, I raised that one right.

I'm doing a little reinforcing of the transom too. Plus building a new rudder, the old box has seen some abuse.

Anyone else, please feel free to join in. The more information I have the better I'll understand what the heck I'm doing.

Mike

[Mark Gudschinsky]

A motor! This means no more rowing across the lake. Always making it to the beach for lunch and dinner. No more forced lazy mid days becalmed on the lake. Fore the rest of the fleet we won't get to see you perched up high with those long great oars driving that big ol' boat across the water.

Hondas are definitely a quality product. Lately there has even been a local commercial on TV for Honda outboards mentioning that their product provided a longer more satisfying experience for men. So we expect you'll be happy with yours. There were apparently some side effect involved but we were laughing at the first half of the commercial and miss them.

Now for info of use: With my electric on our Weekender it seams to be most efficient with the prop in the water so the top diameter of the prop is about two inches below the bottom at the transom.

[Mike Pennington]

Yes, well, hmmm. I guess there was a bit of a thrill there.

One of the features I like is that I can charge batteries when the motors running. Not that I have ever drained my deep cycle yet, even after a week on last summer's vacation. My son just gave me a second deep cycle battery that I will put up forward for ballast trim. Maybe I'll have to get another fan or something. :wink:

Yep I'll really miss rowing the beast across the lake. My arms will probably turn whimpy on me now.

Hopefully the lake will be a bit higher this year with our snow fall. I don't want to take a chance ruining a prop going through the channel at the boat launch so I'll probably still use the oars if I can't sail out.

I'm also curious how the new motor will work on the drift boat.

Mike

[Tim Diebert]

Not sure if any of this would relate to you Mike, but my motor (granted, a wee bit large for a WE) is mounted on one of those fancy spring loaded stainless affairs where the motors can be adjusted for depth and be taken right out of the water. I have a regular length shaft 6hp Johnson....and so does my boat. (sorry, couldn't resist).

The depth is perfect and it rarely cavitates.....oh, maybe sometimes if I am solo and go forward whilst motoring.

I would kill for a new Honda four stroke. Grand motors.

I am of the opinion that extra motor power is never a problem and can be slowing paid for through beachcombing and tow jobs.

[Tim Diebert]

Oh, and I have been building a new rudder stock and rudder myself. In fact, I kind of changed the whole transom area. It may not be the direction you are going, but here is where I am at as of yesterday afternoon.

I have reinforced the outter and inner transom and more to do yet.

The motor brackets sits on the port side of the transom and the new folding swim ladder on the strbd side. Today looks very nice so I might be able to get some more painting done.

The pine 'keel' is my pattern for the new keel shape aft...I am working on that today too. Great fun.

Cheers, TT

[Guest]

Dangit TIm, thats a mighty fine looking rudder. Do you have any down haul on it?

[Tim Diebert]

Thanks Oyster. Yes, both and up and down haul.....not installed yet. The new stuff is still in varnishing stages, so I haven't got to that yet.

[Barry Pyeatt]

WOW! Nice job there Tim. I like the way that the tiller/rudder came together.

Curious about the shape of the keel at the stern. I know you have thought about it a bunch and was just wondering about your thought process. The changes to the keel that you have made have proven to be positive to you regarding drift/tacking ability.

Will the water flow off the trailing edge of the keel have any adverse effect on the efficiency of the rudder? I'm not being critical, just curious about it.

[Frank Hagan]

Very nice rudder/tiller! The problem I have had with mine is the sideways force from the tiller, in windy times, can separate the rudder box "tabs" I have holding the tiller (the sides of the rudder box extend up above the transom). Looks like you've allowed for that with the larger stock and two dowels, and the grain orientation is right too.

[Tim Diebert]

WOW! Nice job there Tim. I like the way that the tiller/rudder came together.

Curious about the shape of the keel at the stern. I know you have thought about it a bunch and was just wondering about your thought process. The changes to the keel that you have made have proven to be positive to you regarding drift/tacking ability.

Will the water flow off the trailing edge of the keel have any adverse effect on the efficiency of the rudder? I'm not being critical, just curious about it.

Thanks Barry. So far so good. I always enjoy the details.

You know, the reason I am adding this deadwood to this area is I feel, even with the changes I have made, that the boat could balance a bit better yet. As you may remember, my dagger board is adjustable fore and aft....a total distance of about 30 ". I did it that way in case I made any major sail plan changes that would effect the CE. I also did not have any actual drawing of the boat, so was shooting a bit in the dark in terms of calculating the CLR....hence the adjustable clr...so to speak.

I have found that even with the forefoot removed, I pretty well always balance the boat best with the dagger board in the full aft position. Meaning to me that I could use more plane aft. So thats what I have done. Just an extension of the lowest point of rocker...with a straight run aft.

I had another thing in mind for doing this as well....better tracking and less 'slew' sailing downwind with a following pattern....specially a quartering pattern. I though she might be a bit more......steady.? Just goofing around really.

Now as for as the shape at the rear of all that, I have two reason for going that way. One is practical. That cutaway allows for me to use an 8" through bolt that will be nutted in the lazarette area. (There will be two more forward). I worked on a ton of old wood work boats, power cruisers and sailboats this is a really common thing to see on them....I think maybe for the same reason.

The other reason is because I see it all the time. Just about every one of John Welsfords designs are finished off this way....and many other designs as well. So I figured those folks must know what they are doing....because I don't....and I like the way it looks.

How will it work? Beats me. I guess I will eventually find out.

Very nice rudder/tiller! The problem I have had with mine is the sideways force from the tiller, in windy times, can separate the rudder box "tabs" I have holding the tiller (the sides of the rudder box extend up above the transom). Looks like you've allowed for that with the larger stock and two dowels, and the grain orientation is right too.

Thanks Frank. I think you are talking about the 'cheeks' that the tiller is housed in. Yes, my old rig did the same thing...got all loose and noodley. On big wind days I could hear the thing creaking and always feared it would break some time when you least needed it to. IThe one I had was always meant to be temporary as I knew I would be replacing it all eventually.

This one is very tight with little chance of slack. The 'dowels' are not dowels at all...I think you are just seeing some flush plugs maybe.

I hinged my tiller well aft so it can be raised to vertical whilst at anchor. I can also raise it enough to move under it when tacking with a full cockpit, and still have some leverage even when lifted.

Part of the reason I made this change to a gudgeon/pintle style was to easily be able to take the whole contraption off whenever I like, rather than working around it all the time or having it sticking out the back of the boat when trailering. I prefer the look of this system as well.

[Tim Diebert]

....and I should add that the keel addition will be the same thickness as the existing keel.....not like the pattern shown in the photo. In case you were wondering.

I see what you mean by the dowels Frank. They are flush plugs.....the tiller, which is in it's full 'down' position in the image, actually rests fully on solid wood. The open area aft and under the tiller is a 'scoop' or roundish shape to allow the tiller to be raised up.

Once it is all done I will post some clearer images.

Thanks for the interest lads.

[Craig]

Mike you are going to love that motor! I set the plate 2-2.5" below the bottom of the transom on the Saralee. The prop stays in the water quite well with a choppy surface and the power head will clear the rail when turned to the side. I can get the motor up horizontal to the laz deck. High power settings will cause the hull to squat and the motor will plow water pretty bad. I stopped most of that with a plastic plate on the bottom of the motor mount. It over hangs the SS a bit so no drilling of the metal. I used wood strips to sandwich the mount with the plastic. It works quite well. You can see the wood in the first photo. http://members.cox.net/bb343/Motor_Mount.html

The thing to watch with this motor is the weight. You need to get it away from the hull a bit. My mount is over built but it was a case of using what I had or buying more. I wanted to use one of the spring-loaded mounts but could not find one with the proper weight rating so went with the fixed mount. You might find that motor to be a bit cold blooded Mike so don't worry if it takes a few minutes to warm up after it is broke in.

Nice rudder Tim. I am real interested in how the keel mods effect the handling. I am still plugging along on the last of the hurricane damage but am at the point of puttin the boom and stuff back on her. I have the top mast and extended sprit built but the othe other ongoing projects are eating up most of my time. She really needs a coat of white on the topsides but it is going to have to wait. She is no longer the Mildew Maru as I got the bleach to her today and finished washing her up from Ivan.

[Mike Pennington]

Thanks Craig,

I needed a little reasurence. I thought you had said 20'. I bought a swivel mount for a 115lbs, but when I read the instructions it specifically said not for 9.9's. They have a larger one that I'll look at tomorrow. The angle of the transom may be a problem yet. I haven't found a wedged plate, though the company makes them. I may have to get them to send me one.

I am also a bit worried, because the boat shop I bought the motor from did not have the electic start style, so I bought the one with the tiller and pull rope. I'm not sure if the tiller is going to clear the deck. Though since I never installed a taff rail I may be alright there.

I definitely will need a wedged spacer plate, worst that can happen is I'll weld one up myself. I added a 2x8 to the inside of the transom today, next I plan to run a couple of 2x4 braces forward.

Once again, I am greatful for your Vacationer how to site. My boat would probably still be a dream if it weren't for your pictures. Thank you.

Tim, it is always a pleasure to look at the modifications to your boat. Very sharp looking rudder. I'm also glad you are pioneering the modified keel. Every year mine gets a little more trimmed down. :shock:

Mike

[Craig]

Mike my tiller just clears the rail so you should be OK. To bad about the electric start, but , they are very easy to start with the rope. The recoil starter is geared down and the pull pressure is comfortable. An angle plate is a must for the transom. I am glad the photos were of use. I never did find a mount that I was wiling to pay for that would hold that motor. The mount you see was designed just for that motor on that boat. You being in fresh water could use 3/13 mild steel and have it power coated. They are a major investment but take your time and it will all work out. Set the motor up on a stand or the side of your work bennch and measure everything and then transfer the measurementts to the boat to get the correct spacing and geometery. You will need to mount out and to the left or right to have the prop clear the rudder. I can take the measurement of the mount if you wish. I have misplaced or lost the drawings for it now.

Craig

[Mike Pennington]

I spent the day adding 2x8 reinforcement to the inner transom to up forward of the lazzerette. I'm sure glad I left the center open for storage. When I built the stern I used a 2x8 on the bottom deck for the transom stringer and a 2x4 infront of that, I also have a double 1/2 inch ply transome all fiberglassed in.

I am very nervous about trailering with the motor on the boat for long distances. Until I weld up a metal brace to the trailer.

I bought a heavy duty double bracket swivel mount today which should counter any torque problems. I plan to work on the spacer this afternoon. I'll take a couple of pics when I'm done.

Sure wish I had built that new trailer, but that dang colon surgery took a long time to heal. Playing with heavy metal was not on my list of can do's.

Maybe I'll get one built this summer. I got this brand new welder last winter and have hardly used it.

Mike