Hatching a plan (for my hatch)

[tdrown]

This Winter I've been periodically working on a new hatch for the cabin on my Weekender to replace the one I made in haste last year before the launch. As I near completion I am going to have to decide on how I'll finish it, the pieces of wood for the top have neither been attached nor even sanded yet. I assembled most of the hatch using PL Premium Construction Adhesive (I know, messy and lousy to work with, but it's a stang bond) and screws. The wood is all Red Oak, so I have to worry a little more about decay than some other woods. I've already sanded and varnished the frame and the tracks for the hatch (I'm on the first coat using Helmsman Sparvarnish if you must know).

I am wondering on what I should do to attach and finish the top. I've been planing on using 1-1/2" brass screws and some PL Adhesive under and between the slats and using many coats of varnish and perhaps a coat of paint on the underside. I'm debating on using epoxy (I have to order some soon anyway, plus it's clear, unlike PL) and perhaps laying some fiberglass cloth. I'm hesitant about cloth because I've spent some time and a lot of very nice wood into this and I want it to remain brightwork, I've never done glass with brightwork before so I'm a bit unsure at my ababilityo create an attractive looking final product using that method. Any suggestions and ideas would be helpful and appreciated.

Thanks,

Tyler S. Drown

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[tdrown]

In case you're wondering, that's masking tape around the handle.

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[tdrown]

more photos

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[Florin {VACATIONER}]

Good question! I'm at the same stage with the hatch. It's built but has to be finished. I've used 1/2" fir ply for the shell, and solid fir for the frame. Because it looks so good we would like to keep it bright as well. I've heard you could just fiberglass it and then varnish on top. We did varnish the forehatch with oil base varnish about two years ago. I'm not sure if the glass will adhere to the oiled wood even if it's been there for a couple of years. I think we need an expert opinion on this one.

It'd sure be nice to have "some" brightwork on the boats though.

Florin

[Kudzu]

For whats it worth.... My kayak (in the photo/avatar) was varnished on the top sides after being coated with epoxy and 6 oz. fiberglass. Looked great. And you don't need the cloth either.

Just have to get the expoxy smooth. Means sanding.

[Mike Pennington]

Nice Tyler,

I think I'll copy your post when I get home after work.

Mike

[Florin {VACATIONER}]

That's easy! I wonder if the fir ply will stand up to the weather if there's no cloth to protect it and hold it in. I've heard that it will start checking pretty badly.

Thanks

Florin

[Frank Hagan]

You can glass, epoxy and then varnish and it will work fine. You have to make sure the varnish is OK with the epoxy by testing a small area, but to be honest, I haven't heard about varnish failures like I have about other oil-based paints.

The epoxy will break down due to UV, so you do have to keep the varnish in good shape. In high-sun areas, like Florida, the epoxy can break down in one summer. Other areas will have it last a lot longer. But a coat of varnish lasts about a year, so if you re-do it every year, you'll be OK.

[tdrown]

The epoxy will break down due to UV, so you do have to keep the varnish in good shape.

That's what I was worried about, but if varnish will do the trick then I guess I'll go with that method. I'm probably going to forgo the nails altogether and just use epoxy to attach the slats. I suppose this means I'm going to have to order some epoxy (I just started a new boat too). Any suggestions about companies? I've heard good things about Raka. I need at least 2 gallons for the new boat.

[Frank Hagan]

I like RAKA a lot, but I've heard good things about System Three and Fiberglass Coatings Inc. (RAKA and FCI are in Florida, System Three in the state of Washington). I think the epoxy itself is comparable, but shipping can vary depending on how far they are shipping it. I ended up using RAKA even with higher shipping charges because Larry there has been so good to boat builders.

[tdrown]

I drew the hatch up in CAD (it's the first thing I've made in CAD, I just started toying around with it tonight). I might post the dxf file somewhere eventually, I also have a postscript file (like a pdf) but it's pretty large. I'd like to get on the water soon but I'm still contemplating on where to order the epoxy from.

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[tdrown]

DXF can be found here: http://tyler.drown.org/hatch.dxf

[Barry Pyeatt]

Without question, glass it and then use a good varnish over it. It will hold up much better and look good for a lot longer. As you may have figured out already my personal preferenced would be for the Varathane exterior gloss. It will outlast most of the others. And it is easy to use.

Quite a project for a Weekender cabin.

[Florin {VACATIONER}]

I would only assume on this, but I guess one would have to apply a few coats of fiberglass resin to cover the cloth texture and pinholes first. Then you'd have to sand or scrape it smooth before the varnish application.

Florin

[Florin {VACATIONER}]

What is the general concensus on staining the woodwork before the fibrglass application? Would water based stain work? Just worried about delam.

Thanks

Florin

[Barry Pyeatt]

If you want a stained wood, then do it first. Once that is completely dry and the way you want it, then glass it just as you would a bare wood surface.

Ask Capt. Jake how he got the fantastic finish on his Kayak. It takes a lot of coating and sanding, coating and sanding, coating and sanding, etc. Then varnish, sand, reacoat, sand, recoat and rub out.

If you want a glass like finish it takes a lot of work. :wink:

[capt jake]

I love the natural look, so if I stain, i do so carefully. My kayak and alof the brightwork on Fire Escape are simply epoxy coated! Epoxy gives it a richer lok than varnish alone (for some reason).

Then Barry is right; coat, sand, coat, sand, coat, sand.....sand again, then maybe start with varnish, sand, varnish, sand, varnish, sand......... :) LOL

[Florin {VACATIONER}]

Well, there are only a few parts which I would like to keep bright on the boat... and cover with glass cloth because I'm worried about checking;

The forehatch, the sliding hatch, the companionway doors, the lazarette hatch and the taffrail. All are made of fir ply with the exception of the taffrail which I am making out of 3 laminations of 1/4" solid fir to make that nasty bend everyone is griping about.

Since I don't want to have to re-finish these every season, I'd like to do this once and right.

So just to clarify this once more before I start.... Stain with water based stain only. Then sand and glass. Then sand some more and apply more resin, etc. until its glass like finish. Then varnish and sand and varnish again etc...

Did I miss anything?

I would assume oil based stain is out due to delam problems, right?

Thanks

Florin

[Frank Hagan]

I would assume oil based stain is out due to delam problems' date=' right?

[/quote']

Not necessarily. The problem with some oil based finishes is that they are incompatible with epoxy, and *something* in them prevents the epoxy from curing completely. But there's an easy way to test for incompatibility by using the stain on a scrap, then coating it with epoxy. If the epoxy cures hard, you're OK.

For coatings over the epoxy, like your oil-based varnish, you then do a "scratch test". You have much the same problem, only this time the incompatibility causes the top coat to not cure. Apply some of the coating over the epoxy, let it cure fully (at least 48 hours), and score it in a cross-hatch pattern with a razor blade. Make the cross hatches about 1/8" apart. Take a piece of cellophane tape and place it over the cross-hatches, burnish it down well, and then rip it off. If the top coat comes off, choose another material.

If

[Florin {VACATIONER}]

Ooops! I guess I forgot to mention I will be using polyester resin and not epoxy!

Without opening another can of worms which I already have done last year... The whole boat is covered in poly resin now and I don't think the hatches will make a huge difference if they were done in epoxy now. Would this change your explanation in you last post Frank, or will it all still stand true and all of the above will apply?

Thanks a bunch

Florin