OT ? wiring CAT5

[capt jake]

I'll sure be glad when you are finished with this House remodeling project so we all can get back to boatbuilding

So 'we all' can get bask to boats?? :) I hope I am not slowing anybody else down!! I hope to be done very soon, as I need a break (to build a cradle for the new grandchild).

Tape texture and paint (in new room).

Wood flooring (850 sq/ft)

Trim.... I think I will be done then....... I think.

Then I can start on hte shop!!! What a mess that is!! :)

No chance of launching this year; too much happening and still no means of propulsion.

[B Wilkins]

From boats to CAT5, is your weekender also going to have network connections?? Jake, it sounds like things are working well for you. The only thing I would mention is running CAT5 with the electrical. The standards indicate that it needs to be ran perpendicular to each other, but in a home with over-all distance of less than 150', there should be no problems. But if you have any, I would check were the CAT5 runs close to the electrical. Have fun, I am glad someone else gets to experience being a cable jockey.

[TexasPhil]

Hey Jake,

I would recommend you get a an 8 port switch. It works simular to a hub but a lot better. The difference is, with a hub only one computer can talk at a time, even if the others are not interested in the conversation. A switch can have multiple conversations at the same time. So, if you have more than 3 computers, the switch is MUCH faster. Here is a link: http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10011646&hdwt=30704&loc=15949

Second, I would recommend you put a firewall up between your switch (or hub) and the router. This will prevent others from hacking into your computers. If you have an old computer, I would recommend using that. I use an old linux box (PC running Linux instead of windows) because it is a) cheap, secure, c) fast, and d) reliable.

Then, connect your router to your provider: I assume you are using a broadband connection like cable or dsl.

[capt jake]

OK, I am a little confused on some of the hardware and donfiguration.

I have a router that says it has a 4 port switch built in;

1 - what is the difference between a router and a switch?

2 - can't I just get another router and uplink it with teh existing one?

3 - OR why not uplink my existing hub to the router?

My thought with the router was to eliminate one or more of the additional IP addresses that I am currently paying for with the hub (by switching to a router);

4 - is this true???

5 - Router says that it has a hardware based firewall installed. I am also using a software based firewalll on hte PC's. Thoughts???

Some of teh e-mails I have received lately have "WARNING(virus check bypassed)" in the subject line. I have checked with teh senders and they did not include this as a subject; thus I think there is a conflict somewhere! Thoughts again????

Thanks folks!! :)

[TexasPhil]

Networking 101:

Hubs and Switches are nearly the same.

Lets say you have 8 ports:

On a hub, one computer talks, one listens, the other wait.

On a switch, up to 4 can talk to the other 4 at any one time, noone waits unless a conversation is already in progress.

A router is nothing like a hub or switch.

However, many (like yours), include a built in switch.

A router has two jobs: First they "route" outbound messages. Second, they convert one network layer to another layer (for example 100 Base-T Network to Cable, DSL, ISDN, or even telephone) Some VERY expensive ones route only.

You usually don't want a router connected to another router, unless you need seperate LANs, or a tiered network. Most likely, you don't.

You can connect a hub/switch to the router, using a crossover cable. Some hub/switches have a one port set aside for uplink, and it is already "crossed", so you need a regular cable.

Most modern routers can be configured for two internal network types: Public or Private. With a Public network, each machine behind it has a "real" IP address. with a Private network, each has a private IP address (usually 192.168.0.xxx) and the router itself has a "real" IP address. (this is your answer to question 4)

Most modern routers also have DHCP (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol), which means that it can provide all the inside machines with IP addresses and network configurations. This will work with Private or Public networks.

Hardware firewalls are OK, but are not very secure or configurable. Usually they simply block specific ports and allow all traffic for the open ports. Some are a little better than that. There are EXPENSIVE hardware firewalls (in the $5000 - $20000 range) like the PIC firewall. They are very good. But the Linux IPTables can be just as good.

Emails are a seperate issue and is usually not related to your network. There are a couple of posibilities as to your receiving emails with that subject:

1. Their email client or virus protection is changing the subject.

2. Your email client or virus protection is changing the subject.

3. They are infected with a virus.

4. You are infected with a virus.

5. Your ISP or theirs, or someone between, is infected or is changing the subject.

6. Someone else is masquerading as the sender.

Without seeing the entire message headers, I am just making a shot in the dark.

Hope that helps.

[capt jake]

Well that does help! Thanks!

The e-mail was sent to me from my wife in the other room, same virus protection as mine, etc. Wierd stuff. :?

I think I can safely just use the hub to uplink to the router as both have uplink ports. This way I can have all 8 of the locations active.

I am still a wee bit confused on the configuration of IP's and MAC addresses but I will probably try to get my nephew over he as he is a network engineer (but he lives a long ways out). I may dig out my laptop and see if it will work as I never purchased an IP address for it. I have always had to change it to the IP of my desktop when I used it on the net.

Thanks again!! :)

[TexasPhil]

Jake,

I would suggest that you put the three favorite rooms directly into the router's switch. The rest of the rooms into the hub, and the hub uplinked to the router.

MAC Addresses are a hard wired address that NEVER change. They are guaranteed to be unique for every machine in the world.

IP addresses are assigned to each machine in your network. They are typically 4 parts, each part in the range of 0 - 255.

There are several PRIVATE IP address groups, but 192.168.xxx.xxx is the most common. This allows about 250 computers on one network, with routers between each network.

In your situation, with a PRIVATE IP network, you will only need 1 (one) IP address from your ISP. This will be assigned to your router. You can set up your router to do DHCP and automatically assign IP addresses and other network parameters to your computers. You will want to use the 192.168.xxx.xxx range.

Very easy to do, but you gotta be there. So it is a good idea to have your nephew over.

[capt jake]

I guess you are right, I meant to say, "assign the IP address to the router." My thought is taking the one IP from my main PC and assigning it to the router. Then do I leave the same IP address on the PC??? Or do I give it a different number? :?

You're right, I should probably wait. After all, everything is working!

[TexasPhil]

Yes, your Router will have the single "Real" IP Address.

All the computers behind the router will have an IP address in the PRIVATE IP Range: 192.168.xxx.xxx.

The easiest way is to set up the router to assign them, using DHCP.

You tell the router to use a range, for example: 192.168.1.30 thru 192.168.1.40.

Then, as a computer connects, the router (DHCP server) assigns the number to the computer. It knows which computer is which, by keeping track of the MAC addresses.

Thus, each computer will be assigned an IP address of 192.168.1.30, 192.168.1.31, etc. They will be able to talk to each other using these numbers. So, they will not need to go out the router.

To the rest of the world, you look like one computer. So, if computer 30 (192.168.1.30) connects to the internet, it looks like your real IP to everything out there. And if computer 31 connects to the internet, it also looks like your real IP. (They ALL look like the same IP)

Your router keeps track of this by using something called NAT (Network Address Translation). Basically, it keeps track of all outgoing messages and matches incomming messages with the outgoing message. Translates the IP to one of the internal IP addresses and sends it to the right computer.

Hope this helps

[Bill]

Phil,

Quick question (as I know this shouldn't turn into a million mile computer thread) are you saying once the router is set up, each time a dynamic IP address is assigned as a "Main IP" the router will automatically assign all the individual computers "private IPs" and keep all the traffic straight?

You tell the router to use a range, for example: 192.168.1.30 thru 192.168.1.40.

If I don't know what the dynamic IP address will be, how can I set the router up to use a range, for Private IPs.

OR

Am I to assume that no matter what the assigned "real IP" address is, I will always have 192.168.x.xx available to me to use with the router assigned Ip addresses?

I'm not picking your brain, you have basically explained something really well, and since you have a knack for it, I thought maybe I'd throw that at you...

Thanks for your time..

Bill

Ps. TEXASPHIL for "Communications Officer" all in favor say "Aye"!

[capt jake]

TEXASPHIL for "Communications Officer" all in favor say "Aye"!

AYE AYE AYE!!!! :)

[TexasPhil]

Yup, the router (DHCP Server) will assign any computers that connect to it (and ask for DHCP service) a Private IP address. It will keep track of which computer has which IP and will keep all traffic strright. To the outside, your entire network will look like one machine... with the Real IP that is assigned to the router.

BTW, the router will be assigned two IP addresses, the Real IP that is visiable from the outside, and a Private IP address that everything on the inside sees. This inside IP will be your "Gateway".

Usually, you assign a range of IPs to the router (DHCP Server), some will handle 10, others can handle about 32 or 64. The router will assign IP addresses from this range to all the computers that connect.

Some routers will allow you to assign MAC addresses to the IP addresses in the range. Which means that even though it is "Dynamic", each machine ALWAYS gets the same IP address. This also means that without the MAC assignments, each computer will get a random IP address from the range, though the router has some fancy algorithms to try to keep the same IP address assigned to the same machine. This is called a "lease", and it gets more complicated. [the router takes care of it... so don't worry]

You can always use the PRIVATE IP addresses 192.168.xxx.xxx. There are 256 class C Private networks: 192.168.0.xxx, 192.168.1.xxx, .... 192.168.255.xxx. You can use any of these, it is your choice. But you MUST use them behind a router. These IP addresses are BANNED from the Internet, that way they can be used as Private Networks.

There are other Private Networks: the 10.x.x.x Class A network, and a Class B network (I don't recall the number). I have never used the Class B network anyway... usually I use one of the Class C networks, and if the company has more than 200 computers, I just use the Class A network (up to 16.5 million computers). That way, I know they will never run out of IP addresses. (Plus, I like the 10.... Numbers)

Hey, I love having my brain picked! Pretty soon, I won't have any left!

Thanks for the nominations! But I'm just a Coxswain... what ever that is! (Oh, I see it is the helmsman from dictionary.com)