Hollow mast with sail track

[Guest Florin]

Has anyone thought of making a hollow mast and boom with a wooden sail track in order to eliminate the sail lashing or the mast hoops?

It would really clean up the rigging a lot and probably mae it a lot easier on the sails... plus a lot easier to rig and unrig.

I sort of have an idea in my mind, just trying to see if it has been done in an easier fasion. It will definitely add to the build time.

Thanks

[Craig]

Florin I have seen drawings of that with an oval or teardrop mast section. Seems it was in some Bolger stuff but possibly some of the others recall. It was a solid section at the rear of a boxed mast structure with a bolt rope pathway machined into the block. Help here please with Mr. memory you younger guys and gals. You too Bruce! I have sailed older boats with this configuration and prefer the lashings or a metal track. None of the boats I sailed had tabed masts.

[Barry Pyeatt]

I had a boat some years back with a one piece stepped mast. Its mast was a box section construction of spruce but it had a black wood inset into the backside of the mast. There was a teadrop shapped groove up the middle of that section for a sail track. It was approx. 30-40% larger than the clips that attached to the sail. Very well done in its execution but it was a real pain in the....neck. It was constantly getting jammed and I would have to back it off and try again. I recall haveing a sail maker check it out and see if it needed something else to make it work better, he said it was the nature of the beast. He recommended lashing the sail to the mast instead. :cry:

With todays modern dry lubricants it might not be such an issue. :idea:

I think the clips and the track were both ironwood or something similar. I know that it was incredibly hard material. It was hot oiled until it couldn't soak up any more and then allowed to dry for about a month. Then it would be burnished with a special tool that was like extremely dense and hard felt. I fought it for three seasons and then sold the boat. 8)

If it were mine, I would make up parrel beed hoops. They are very smooth operating. Also any wood that is used to fabricate the track should be very fine grain and extremely dense. Splinters, slivers and even small knicks can ruin it. That would also cut down on the expansion/contraction with humidity changes and temp variations.

[TexasPhil]

Hey Florin,

I have been thinking about using a track of some type too, but there are several things to consider:

First the sail type should be considered. Two basic choices here, with a multitude of variations: Basically, what goes into the track? Either the sale itself (with a rope sewn into the edge to keep from pulling out), or some type of attachment (like a toggle).

The problem with inserting the sale is quite a lot of additional chafing of the sail. Plus, if you use the rope method, it will be a pain the the rump if it ever gets wedged into the groove, so make sure the rope is sufficiently larger than the narrow of the track.

The problem with the toggles is that you need to make sure they will not bind, preventing upward/downward movement. This is accomplished by making longer toggles. (if the narrow is 1/4", and the wide is 1/2", then 1" toggles should not bind)

Next, the mast and track:

If the track is made of wood, there will be expansion/contraction issues. If it swells up, it may become very difficult for anything to move up and down the track.

Additionally, you cannot cut a groove completly through a hollow mast. This would make it a "C" shape instead of an "O" shape, The "O" is considerably stronger than the "C". So the groove must not weaken the mast, so you will want a thicker trailing edge.

Another option, instead of a wood track is to add a metal track to the trailing edge. This has the advantages of no expansion/contraction issues, is clean and easy to install. You can either go with a keyhole type of groove, or the opposite, where cars have the groove and fit on the track.

I still have not decided what I am going to do. I will probably end up building several masts and sails, but I will start with the stock mast method (solid - laminited), but bigger as described in my modifications pages.

I can't find it now, but I had a couple of links to sites that had plans on how to build a tear-dropped wooden mast, with a groove. Anyone know where those are?

Phil

[Andrew]

Florin

These pictures are from the Glen-L book 'Rigging small sailboats' - its readable on-line at Glen-l.com.

I copied and pasted all the on-line pages into a woed document so I have the whole book when I need it and I can print it any time.

It's a fairly large word doco (>1MB), but if others show interest I'm willing to zip it up and e-mail to those who want a copy (If I'm not infringing anybody's copyright!!)

[Andrew]

Sorry the fire wall won't let me send the attachments (I'm at work).

Try the glen-l site - find the book and check under the page labelled 'Chapter 3 - Masts and booms'

I'll post the pictures later today when I get home

[Florin {VACATIONER}]

Thank you,

I guess according to the poll, the wooden track is bad news. Ok, I'll stay away from it for now. I'll play around with my idea after we launch. I do think it's a good idea though and I can't see the plastic sails hanging up on nicely polished track anymore than they hang up on the pain in the a$$ aluminiun track on the CJ's we're renting from the local sailing club.

thanks

[TexasPhil]

Andrew's comment on the Glen-L book were interesting, so I found it online:

http://www.glen-l.com/weblettr/webletters-2/webletter16.html#rigging

Just read it and it is very helpful.

[T. Nelson Surbrook]

Paul Had designed a track system made of carbon fiber I don't think he completed the project but he would be the one to get ahold of for detailed information.

[Frank Hagan]

I think a track only makes sense for a bermuda rig. The gaff rig works well with mast hoops, rings or lacing the sail on the mast, and takes almost no effort to raise the sail or bring it down on top of the boom. Every time I put a sail's bolt rope into a sail track I curse modern "conveniences" ... although sail slugs certainly make it easier. Its still a pain and only "required" on those boats where you MUST take the sail off and stow it separately.

On the Weekender and Pocket Cruiser, and Vacationer if you modify it, the sail is simply lowered and flaked (Z-folded) on top of the boom, tied off with sail ties, and the mast lowered on top of it. Very quick, very easy.

Oh, maybe that 1/10th of a knot in speed by eliminating the turbulence at the mast is important? :roll: You'll only go about 6mph at the fastest in these boats, so "speed" is all relative, you know.