Tim Diebert

Oh and Ray......if you don't already know everything there is to know about drying wood, and I am sure you do :wink: ......it is something I have done a lot of in the last 25 years and if you need any guidance in this area....after you stop blowing chunks of course....fire away.

....you lost your cookies? Flu? Too much partyin Prof? That particular stuff was rough sawn, stickered outdoors, planed and brought indoors, stickered (dry piled with strips) again and left to dry in a very large heated shop...with circulated air...fans etc. It is quite dry. This guy I get it from has a sash and door shop. He buys lifts of what he hopes is Larch and Fir. He allows me to high grade it for whatever I need. He has no idea that this "really weird light stuff' is Spruce. Even here in the middle of softwood nirvana, they don't grade out most species. Quite of then the grade will be Larch Fir Hemlock. Whoever buys the stuff has to be willing to get a little of each. Spruce grows sporatically throught larger commercial stands of Fir and whatever. They just take and process it all. I believe, that for some of the high end market (Japanese standards) they will pull and grade for the very best stuff. I am not sure though. As for Mikes question above Cookie Mans....around here Spruce is kind of like a weed. Nobody harvests it on a strickly Spruce basis...that I know of. The only heavy use of the very best Spruce would be for sound board (acoustic guitar) wood. Most of that grows on the west coast anywhere from vancouver to Alaska. That is the only product from Spruce that gets a good price. Otherwise, the stuff is all over the place. It's not great for framing, or furniture or posts (the decay resistance is lousy) and it is crappy firewood....so there always seems to be lots of it. I have three really big trees in my yard. Spruce is super for airplane parts, musical instruments and oars/spars. I love the stuff. Ever hear of the Spruce Goose? I was once involved in making a few parts for a light experimental aircraft. It was a beautiful thing. The part I remember the most was this amazing plywood the owner supplied me with for making some gussets and small bulkheads. 1/8 Spruce plywood. There might have been 8 or more lamination in that 1/8". Just gorgious stuff...so strong and light. I have never seen or heard of the stuff since...though I am sure it exists somewhere. What a rant for such a simple question....Ray lost his cookies and I have diarea of the finger tips. We are in sad shape. Tally Ho

Great idea Professor...a 150lb bulb on the end of a 36" dagger board. Could be interesting...specially mixed with that whole 'old timey' friendship sloop plywood sharpie thing. Hey Capn Fire Escape...there's yer boat description! Hope I am not too late. What I did was a whole lotta cypherin and ass scratchin there Prof...you woulda been proud of me. I also did not want to lose any (or very much) interior space. My plan was to have enough space remaining for one human to sleep aboard...after the dagger board case was installed. It sits 11 inches to strbd of the centerline. Still leaves enough room to sleep, enough room to get in and out and leaves enough room for a person to sit just inside the cabin area with their head out the hatchway. (Something a good many of my ballast humans would do) The tricky part was designing the thing so I could get a good long length of DB into the water, and get it into into and out of the case without chainsawing a slot in the coach roof. I did not want a drop board or hinged unit...I have found them to be a bit of a pain. I am a KISS principal kind of guy. The case is 12" high, the board is a total length of 48" including a handle and stuff at one end. The effective part of the board, under the hull is 32" long and 12" wide. Solid Oak with the coolest ratio wing taper. I got these figures (I think you found these Prof...) in a magazine. I will look it up if anyone is interested. It goes in down through the open hatch on an angle angle once inside, all straighten up. The fun part of this project is that I made the case longer than really necessary....30". Partly to be able to get the board in the case and also so I can play around with the CLR...the board can move fore and aft for fine tuning and general mischeif. ((Although I made sure the actual CLR point was covered) All this stuff is made and fitted and am in the Varnushing stages right now. And just in case you wanted to know...yes, I am going to be wacking off some of the silly keelson if I have time. If not...next year for sure. Main thing is to get back in the water. The Canadian sailing season is upon us and I feel the need.

...now I remember where I read about the heavy mast thing, it was Knut's excellent account of the 'Maiden Voyage Knockdown'....also a new tune by Homer Noodleman and The Barn Owls recorded on their recently released CD, "Viking Sailing Tunes for Floridians"...on Blind Pig Records. I think you are onto something there Knut. A first hand account and a valuable lesson indeed. The masts on these boats (like so many things on these boats) was designed for appearance not practicality or performance. Personally, I tend to be a little hard....in a critical sense....on these little ships as I did not build my boat. I do not have the 'emotional' investment that all you other folks have. It will be fun to see if a lighter mast will make any difference. It will also be fun to see what happens when Professor Ray does the Ballast Bulb Thing.....and Barry gets his Extendo Sprit Roller Furling Thing done....and whatever else is in the works. Like my new dagger board and dagger board case that will be in use this summer. (Man, I am just Jonesin to saw off that silly keel that resides under this boat) Thanks for the input Knut.

I haven't cut it up yet Ray....though I am quite sure it is hollow with plugs at either end. All 3/4" material. Like a brick this thing is. It was nailed (and hopefully glued) together with stock lumberyard lumber. There is likely a pound or two of filler alone :shock: Thanks Charlie...right, my thoughts as well. I have spent my entire life being contrary...so might as well keep on keeping on. Mr. Guinea Pig. As for the boom, there is zero chance this thing will be anything but nice dry kindling for the shop stove. The new boom is lighter (just working on it right now...) by about 2 lbs as far as I can see right now. I am sure it will be fine....though if there is any noticeable change from my previous sail shape I will be sure to whine regularly and with enthusiasm. Thanks for the advice.

As it turns out, my new mast is 2 13/16" tapered to 2".... basically. As I said before, about 13 1/2 lbs. My old mast made of fir and hemlock is 3 1/8th" at the foot and 2 1/4" at the head and it looks like the previous owner/builder did a four piece box style section. Anyway, the old mast weights in at 28 lbs. That makes for a 14 1/2 lb difference. It will be interesting to see what kind of difference in effect, balance or performance there might be. I have been looking at similar sized boats to the Weekender and found that their masts were quite a bit smaller....so I thought it might be a good thing. My gaff and boom will also be made of this light weight Spruce. I should notice quite a difference with weight aloft. Being as the old gaff was red oak. With the right grip...this thing could make a great jousting lance [/img]

My guess is the mast can be much thinner then plan recommendations call for. How much thinner, Tim may find out. So Tim, How thin are you going to come up with 13 1/2 lbs? Is this entire weight of mast from hull floor to tip? >Yes, the entire mast..tapered...from end to end. Basically it is working out to about 2 7/8" at the foot and 2 1/2" or so at the head. It has a pleasing line to it so far. It is a little scarry how light it is...but I am always amazed at how strong this material is. Plus it sounds good...I use it to make guitars all the time :roll: I have to get a bathroom scale out to the boat and measure weight of the tapered mast from tabernacle to tip for my own curiosity. >I have my old mast in the shop and I will weight it later...good idea. It might be interesting to compare. I can tell you right now the difference is great. I always thought my previous mast was much too heavy and large for such a light small boat. As you say, I guess we will find out. I think the thread you were thinking about was on the BYYB site. >Could be....though I can't recall being over there is a very long time....I will go check it out. My guess is that a birdsmoth mast will weigh a bit lkess then juust a tapered mast but probably not that much. maybe 10-20% at most. Now if mast was un tapered, the weight savings of a hollow vs solid would be much greater, up to a third. >I am sure you are right. The birdsmouth would take a lot of abuse as well. My plan was to try and reduce as much weight up high as possible. I never had any trouble setting up the old mast...but the new one is going to be a breeze. I had also originally intended to change the sail shape a bit as well....to more of a higher peeked Gunter...but bailed on that and decided to go with a Lapper sized headsail. I am trying to improve windward performance. A navel architect I spoke to said a better headsail would give me more advantage than the new main shape. Besides, it will be much quicker for me to get all the new work done and get sailing if I stick to the original numbers for the standing and running rig. Speaking of sails, I bought a kit from Dave at Poly sails. I will just be making my main from the kit as I have an old Dacron headsail a friend donated that I will be cutting down to make a headsail. The kit looks great so far. All super materials. Fast delivery.

....Mostly Mastly Musings I was sure someone here was having a chat about masts, weight and construction methods recently. ? Maybe I read it somewhere else...perhaps over on the B&B board. Anyway, for what it's worth....(Ray, you can add this to your vast treasure trove of Numbers, calculations, weights, measures and methods) I am replacing all my standing rig this spring. New mast, boom, gaff and bow sprit. Not to mention hatches, companionway, dagger board and trunk. To me it looks like I am going to spend the summer doing even more dreaded woodworking rather than sailing....bugger. All spars are bookmatched super straight grain air dried local Spruce. Awesome material. Super light, very strong and gorgeous. I made a set of 8 foot sweeps about 15 years ago out of the same stuff....I am going to be buried with these rascals....they age so wonderfully....sooooo light and strong. I am right in the heart of wood world and picked through about 600 BF of a Buddy's best material to get this stuff...and paid a whopping $1 per BF canucklian. Am I lucky or what? Anyway, I altered the masts dimensions quite a bit. The stock scantlings are ridiculously huge so I am smaller around and a tad longer. I want to fly a pendant of some sort with the 9" extension. A jolly roger would be appropriate...or the family crest (which would need designing)..... Anyway (I been saying that a lot...) the stick is almost round right now, and about 16 feet long...and it weight in at 13 1/2 lbs....and a hell of a lot easier and quicker to make than a birds mouth version, though admittedly not as strong. Though IMHO, a mast for one of these boats does not need to be that strong.... Onward and Upward

I figure at twenty knots I should be able to sail from one end of Christina Lake to the other in no time....as long as it will fit through the narrow part. I am just working on the trailer aspect.....I may need some help launching. Crap, I just realised...that boat is almost twice as long as my property. I better cancel my order and get my deposit back. Sorry Barry. ...epoxy?.....later for that stinky stuff. All wood.

http://www.mirabellayachts.com/mirabella5/index.html

I was just cruising the WBF and found your 'last' post there Rex. Thier loss...our gain. I have always enjoyed your posts ....one of the main reasons I ever showed up there. Your poetry rant killed me.

Chris...just my 2 Canadian cents worth, but when I first saw the new design I was astounted as to how close to my ideal design this boat is. I play around with a weekender now and would consider the Belhaven to be a huge step forward in many ways. great design, I am looking forward to seeing one in 3d. BTW...does anyone know if someone has started one yet?

MM too.... Have you guys tired of the WBF life? Or just looking for some new buddies? Welcome.

Hi Rex.

Great story for us Knut...not so great for you. Between you, Frank and Ray I figure you have determined the cause(s). Like you, I came from keelboat country to the Weekender. It was bloody hard to get used to! Now I am completely comfortable with the boat, though you never loose that slightly nervous aspect of being on an unballasted 'dingy'-like boat. Good to know at least these things stay afloat. You got to be the one to test for us all. Ray thanks you (I tried to talk him into doing it a while back) I like your input on the lighter mast. The masts on these things are huge! As far as I can tell...waaaay bigger than they need to be. I am about to put another mast togther for my boat and had intended to make something a tad lighter myself. Rays advice of never cleating the main in air over 6 kts or so is very good. I found myself doing that pretty well automatically after the first sail or two. If your buggering along nicely in a good stiffy and you are getting occasional gusts (God I love that feeeling) if you keep the main sheet in your hand, without touching anything else or moving your body weight...even just moving your whole arm a few inches, without letting the sheet slip through your fingers makes a world of difference in heel. It is immediate and very responsive. Because of this, the WE can be a handful when sailing in big stiff breezes. But I expect any small boat would be. Another theory of mine is that many folks that sail these boats are kind of fooled into thinking a WE is more than it is. In reality it is a very small boat with big boat decks and house. Sometimes I think these folks should try and imagine sailing this boat as though it had no side decks or cabin. That's what I do. Another thing I might mention is your little warm water deep south incident could have been fatal in ANY other more northern water. I have no intention of capsizing my boat...I'd feeze my gronicals off!! :shock: Sorry to hear about your camera(s) and cel phone. Bummer. :cry: and so it goes.

They are all adhiesives to some degree Jake. Personally, I would use Boat Life or Sikaflex.

"poly (propylene) I think. Ester's her cousin" ...I always get those mux dipped. DOAH! :silly:

Ha......see that Jake? You build a piece of art....now you pay the price, man. That should only set you back 2 or 3 hundred dollars. I have a crap boat, so a $10 polytarp works great. It's all relative. :beamup: But seriously folks...a good cover would be a fine thing. I use a large enough tarp that it all bungies together under the boat. So all the paint is protected. The only opening is at the back. So far the cats have not discovered this primo bathroom area. :changes:

Frank, you are one funny guy! I just remembered something Jake....I don't use my cleats as part of my 'steering system'...I made some UHMW pad eyes. The line slips through them better. But I will tie off the tiller with the cleats....when I want to go below to select nice Chablis from the wine cellar. Seems like years since I have gone sailing. This Winter thing sucks.

If Jo is confused...I am really confused. I re-read this post too many times already...what did I miss? ...and it is not even a full moon.

That is sort of what I am doing with my main Frank. Trying a new shape and rig. If it is an improvement, then I will go sail cloth one day.

...oh and for those who are cheap like me and are interested in what Dave Gray had to say about reef points in Poly Mains...behold: "Tim, Here's a little different method for putting reef points in polytarp. Reinforce the edges of your sail where you intend your reef tack and reef clew to be located. Also reinforce the sail (both sides) with diamonds of 3" wide vinyl tape (or 2 pieces of 1 1/2" white duct tape to make a 3" diamond) in four evenly distributed locations across your sail along the line that will become your reef foot from the reef tack to clew. Place a strip of 2" wide Industrial Strength Velcro (loop strip) across the face of one side of your sail from reef tack to clew. Place grommets directly through the Velcro at the reef tack and clew and where your four reinforcing diamonds are located. Place your ties through the grommets. Locate the hook strip of Industrial Strength Velcro on your boom. When you need to reef in a hurry, match up the Velcro strips, then tie in your reef. You can also use the same technique without the Velcro, but you will need several more reinforcing diamonds across the sail. Place the grommets directly in the middle and through the reinforcing diamonds across your sail and then place your reef ties through the holes and knot on both sides of the grommet. Eventually, the taped on diamonds might start to lose adhesion and you will have to sew them down or use double-faced tape strips behind them that you will replace from time to time. I personally like the Velcro because you can tie in a reef much faster in times when you can't leave the tiller for long. The Velcro is available through Sam's Club or directly from me for $24 plus shipping and handling for a 20' roll of hook and loop (only size available). Sorry, I don't sell the 3" vinyl tape separate from the kit unless you've previously ordered a kit. We have it custom made for us much like the NASCAR teams have their own 200 mph tapes custom made. Like the white polytarp, it's unique to our kit and one of the few selling points we have over the stuff you get at Wal-Mart. On the other hand, you really don't need the tape if you sew the edges. Use the double-faced carpet tape along all edges (Check out the Instructions page on my website) and fold over the edges and stitch them down. If you make a neat cut with sharp shears along the edge of the double faced tape before you fold the edge over, your edges will not need any duct tape or vinyl tape to look good. In fact, I've successfully used sails for a season or so that had only the double-faced tape and the grommets holding the sail edges together. Eventually, though, all tapes lose adhesion and need stitching. That happens even faster in hot climates. Regards, Dave Gray"

I found this fellow, Dave Gray, who sells kits for poly sails of all kinds for smaller boats. I emailed him for some advice on adding reef points to a poly sail and he sent me back a nice long letter with all kinds of advice. His site is good, have a look. It is great that he took the time to answer my questions...so I am taking the time to plug his work. http://hometown.aol.com/polysail/HTML/index.htm He has tips on how he recomends making poly Weekender sails http://hometown.aol.com/polytarp/weekend.htm[/url]

Buffing? Whatthehellyoutalkin BUFFING? ....man. I'm with Gordy on the too many cleats thing Jake. The midship version could be left off for now...I don't have any there...I tie fenders and such to the stays. You probly won't be using a spring line anyway...who knows?