ScottWidmier

Craccckkk! :oops: :oops: Steaming went well on the poplar but not on the mahogony. I kinda figured something was wrong when I pulled the mahogony out of the completely steam filled box and parts of it were dry. I am going to fit in some sort of rack system in my box instead of blocks on the bottom and leaning the piece against the side and try again.

Well, unfortunately my old tablesaw went with a previous house so no table saw. Besides, I really do want to try steaming because so many people, like Craig, have said it is cool and interesting to do. On a positive note, we are buying a new house that has a basement that is stubbed but not finished. I have gotten permission from SWMBO to put in big double doors and take as much of the basement as I need for a good woodshop/boatshed! Guess she is tired of layers of dust on everything in the garage :oops: . I plan on doing everything I can when fitting out the space to make it dust sealed and am also wanting to set up a dust catching system.

Ahoy, life has gotten interesting and my boat project has languished. I plan on rolling her back over since the last stage I finished was filling, sanding, and painting the bottom. Once she is rolled over I will mount the seats and other interior bits before turning to the coaming...less to lean over when doing the inside. Jim, I still plan on steaming just because I want to . I do like the effect of laminating but I am working with a 3/8" x 3" piece of wood and really don't have the equipment to cut that in half thickness wise.

Didn't realize that that first weekend in April is Easter. So, how about the second weekend which would be the 14th and 15th of April?

Oops. Fixed!

A couple of folks are contemplating meeting at Lake Norman, NC the weekend of April 7th and 8th for a messabout. Anyone else out there interested in this and want to chime in on the planning? I want to have some fun events like a poker run and perhaps a game of broadsides so that we can sharpen our sailing skills. Lake Norman seems to be a decent middle point for a lot of the eastern united states and close to the Charlotte airport if anyone wants to fly and crew for other folks who are there.

Where is the mast and sail ? It is never too early to get kids started on sailing. Of course, you might not want another kids sailing circles around you eaither :wink: .

I think the lug is a better rig for the C12 and Jacqeus, the designer of the C12, has said he really likes it. I think he went with the marconi because it is a more "modern" sail that people are used to and that fits in better with his bigger boat designs which are more modern in appearance. The beamy C12 hull needs to be sailed flatter so a low center of effort sail makes sense. Not to mention the reduced spar length and simplicity of the standing rigging. Where did Joe order the sail from? I may want to order a sail for my modified C12 and get out of the polytarp business. I moved the mast on my C12 forward by 16" so need to go with a rig which moves the center of effort aft a bit. I am thinking of either a gaff rig or a sprit rig. The gaff I like because I am familiar with it but it is a complex rig to have on a 12' boat. The sprit I am a little more uncertain of in the size I would need on this boat. The sprit itself would be of heroic proportions! However, it is imensly easy to "lower" the sprit by brailing it to the mast. Tell Joe I am glad I am rubbing off on him. Though, I do think he needs more sail area! :shock:

Jim, you get the most beautiful finishes on your boats. Do you have pictures of the inside of the Kingston? Tell Joe I love his C12. I noticed he went with the lug rig instead of the gunter he was thinking of. I also noticed he got one of those harbor freight folding trailers. How is he liking it? I am moving ahead on my modification project for my C12 and will post more pictures soon. One other thing, we went to the Atlanta boatshow this past friday. What a difference from Cleveland outside with us casually walking up in our short sleeve shirts vs. freezing our behinds off scrambling through a blizzard to get to the mid-america boatshow. Once inside, I was immediately dissappointed by the Atlanta boatshow. The sailboats were even more sparse, no homebuilt boats at all, very few interesting shows, and no marine equipment. It basically existed to sell powerboats. Another difference was the nature of the powerboats with not nearly as large or well-appointed boats as the mid-america. It was interesting to walk through all of the houseboats however. Looks great!

Thanks everyone for the wonderful advice. I have always wanted to steam bend something because it is one more step on the way to traditional boatbuilding but I do admit a bit of trepidation. I don't like having to work fast and I hate being on edge listening for the dreaded CRACK as you bend the wood just a little bit further. Based on the advice posted here I think I will try steaming just to be on the safe, non cracking, side. Besides, I should learn how to do it sometime and, as was pointed out, this curve isn't extreem. I believe the wood is seasoned African Mahogony but I will double check so I have an idea of what I am working with. I also like the idea of the smaller radius form because I would hate to go through the steaming process just to struggle with it and hear it crack during the mounting. Can I use scrap ply to make the form or does it have to be MDF? Thanks again.

Here is a picture of the boat showing the curve at the front of the cockpit I am concerned with. I don't have the measurements on me but figure that this is a 12' boat and you get an idea of the dimensions of the curve. Would just soaking it with boiling water work in this instance or is it better to take the time to steam it? Also, what impact does the wetness of the board have on the epoxy that would be gluing it in? Or, do I first bend and clamp it to get the shape and then let it dry out before epoxying it into place? Thanks for all of the advice btw.

Thanks, excellent advice from the post and website. I really appreciate the heads up in regards to working time being one minute. That probably saved me a lot of headaches right there.

My modification project on my c12 is coming along well though it looks like I won't be finishing the decks bright (long story). One of my next steps is to put the mahogony cockpit coaming on. I bought some beautiful mahogony and had a friend mill it down to 3/8" boards. I shouldn't have any problems with the coamings on the sides but the forward coaming has to go around a fairly tight curve so I must steam. My question is, can I build a steamer out of polytarp with pvc pipe as a frame to hold it in shape? I only have to steam one board and I don't have space to store a steamer. I figure I can dissassemble the pvc and polytarp and store it in the attic for future projects.

You aren't far from the truth in your joke Frank. Actually, the one I have was given to me by my uncle. Basically it is a weed wacker motor married to a propeller but I like it a lot better than I thought I would. It is loud but pushes along boats surprisingly well for its diminutive size and weight. Worked fine on my pocket cruiser though I prefered using the 4hp evinrude since I had the storage space for the larger motor. Where the cruise n carry shines is on smaller boats that don't have the space for a backup motor like my Bateau.com C12. The cruise n carry just tucks under a seat and then I know I have the legs to get back no matter how far I sail. Used it to motor the C12 about 2 miles while towing Jim Stumpf and Joe Horvath in Jim's Oxford dingy. Didn't use up a noticable level of gas. Besides the noise, the other disadvantage of the motor is leaking gas from the seals around the gas cap and airvent. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.

I have a cruise n carry and that could be real interesting! Understand about the registering thing. That is why I designed a boat for oar and sail with no accomodation for a motor.

How many HP can that Minipaw take? Could it take 10hp? Love the picture!

Another option to spindrift that would meet your needs and come in under the $2500 is the C12 by bateau.com ( http://www.boatplans-online.com/studyplans/C12_study.htm ). If you follow that link you will see the plans including a complete BOM. One of the reasons I built this boat is that it used the least amount of plywood of any other plans which really cuts down on costs. Yet, I can attest that it is a very solid and capable boat which has outsailed many a bigger boat thanks to a great hull shape. She is a catboat which means beamy for her length which translates into a wonderful carrying capacity for her length as well as stability allowing you to move around easily and ability to stand up to strong winds or gusts of winds. I have sailed on her with my family of four so she should accomodate your needs. She is V bottomed so able to handle the waves and you can hike out if you want. Here I am on a very boisterous day: my son sailing while I provide too much ballast forward . My boat I rigged with a gaff so that I could have an unstayed shorter mast and she took to the new rig just fine. I know of another builder who is going gunther for more windward ability but still shorter mast. Basically, she is a flexible platform depending on your needs. Right not I am modifying mine by adding a deck and lowering the seats. Main reason is my wife won't let me build another boat and I gotta satisfy my itch so I am modifying a current boat! :wink: I plan on making a removable cabin trunk so I can convert her to a mini cruiser and a bimini for our hot summers. You can see what I am doing here: http://209.190.4.227/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12148 [/url]

Wait until you get the deck on and then you can line it up much better.

Stuart, one lake I have identified as a possibility of an April meeting is Cave Run Lake in Kentucky. Looks like a very beautiful setting! I will be bringing my modified C12 with cabin all ready for sleeping. With all of that nice space in his Kingston and me wanting to try out the cabin, I assume that we will be sleeping on the boats. However, there is a nice campground on that lake.

That is what I meant by easier. The V bottom requires a stitch and glue method with a higher learning curve and one that can take longer than glue and screw. However, I believe stitch and glue is superior and have been using it on all of my boats be they flat or V bottomed. I think the chines are tougher and there is nothing that will rot or collect dirt. Now, screw and glue with either chine logs or stringer will build a boat that you can have on the water the fastest. Use a glue like PL premium and some housepaint and you can build a boat in two days and have her on the water sailing by the third. Even less if you go with a simple design. I know because this is exactly what I did in building a puddle duck racer. I flew out to my parents house in Houston, built the boat in two days, cartoped it out to the PD racer world championship on Magnolia Beach, Tx, placed third, and then gave it to a father and son who came to the event. Of course, i built this PD racer with side airboxes and a foredeck. I also built all of the spars, daggerboard (and trunk), and rudder. I even built a paddle to go with it. Here is a sequence of photos that tells the story. Now, there are a couple of boats out there that I think I could build even quicker. Of course, they won't last as long as the boats I build stitch and glue and glass the outside of. But, the materials can be purchased for $150 which is less than the cost of renting a boat for a day! One of the most satisfying experiences I have had with boatbuilding!

Same problem here Oyster. However, wouldn't they look nice on Jim's boat? Give it a nice nautical air and bigger openings for air circulation. Come on, Jim, you are itching to dog down some portholes!! Your cabin sides look plenty big to accomodate these and think about how light your cabin would be.

Oyster, lets see if these pictures work. These ended up being too big for a boat I am working on. The opening is 9" and the flange is 12"

The ones I have are brass and have the dogs.

Jim, what are you doing for portholes? I have round opening ones with a 9" opening that I won't be using... I can show them to you in December.

Warning, the following is in lecture mode just coming from teaching a marketing management course. I can understand it from a business sense though I could see how his actions left dealers in the cold. MacGregor distinctive competency is operational excellence that gives a lower cost per boat (or at least comparable boat) than other manufacturers. This gives a higer profit margin in an industry where it is hard to have any sort of profit margin. In order to have low cost you have to sqeeze every cent until it bleeds analyzing and reanalyzing everything you do in order to reduce costs. Having more than one model of boat significantly increases costs in the areas of manufacturing, marketing, materials and administration. Another model not only would add costs but might cause cannabalism with current lines. Obviously, MacGregor either is happy with their current market share or believes there is still market share to get with the 26M. Some of the other ways to cut on costs are evident in the boats primarily in terms of finish. Not that they don't look nice but the finish is really limited to the three (four?) molded parts of the boat leaving storage areas unfinished. Personally, I kinda appreciate the "blank canvas" approach enjoying personalizing the boat and customizing the storage to my particular needs. However, I could see how others might appreciate the finish of Compac boats. What I do find amazing in MacGregors is the willingness to go on a limb and be innovative. Don't normally see that in a company pursuing low-cost leadership (operational excellence). Also, there seems to be less problems with innovative features, such as water ballast tanks, in MacGregor boats as compared to some of the competitors. Sorry, I can't help but admire the strategy. Though pissing off the dealers isn't necessarily smart.