brian watkins

Graham's post must have come in while I was typing my armchair input (which comes from drawing boats for fun). His is much better, as you would expect. It's funny how choice and placement of windows or ports so changes the appearance of the whole boat. Just like sheer lines!

It's probably an aesthetic decision more than anything, but from my armchair I shall dispense my preference! Imagine a line parallel to the sheer of the gunwale. Place the bottom of the porthole trim long that line. The horizontal center of the aft unit should just below the halfway mark between the top and bottom of the house side, and the forward unit will of course be higher. If the sheer is too extreme then a slight lessening of the curve may help. That's my druthers. If you look at the two Princess 22's that we've seen in the forum and on the B and B site, you'll see that the first one built is close to my preference, and the one built for Travis Votaw is different. Isn't that wonderful! You can have it your way!

Yes, that is her in her original rig. The catalogue is "Fifty Wooden Boats"; the first of a series of three. The original design by Day (the editor of "The Rudder") and Mower was for an easily-built cruiser for two that would appeal to persons of moderate means. MacGregor was one of the first designers to explore the possibilities of plywood. Two more boats were designed in the Seabird series. The largest was the Seagoer at 34 feet LOD. A man named Pidgeon built one (sans engine) in California, sailed it around the world twice, but was wrecked on the third lap (he was quite elderly, and had his new wife with him as well!). They were rescued and returned to America, where he commenced building a Seabird. He died in his eighties (I think), before it was finished. He was the second (after Slocum) to solo around the world. The interior is improved in the plywood version by the reduction in size of the center-plate case, but both boats have a basic civilized two-berth interior, and a huge amount of storage. Captain Voss (of Tillicum fame) sailed in 1911 from Yokohama with two men on their Seabird. They carried 130 gallons of water, three months of provisions, and a gramophone, so it's safe to say that the design has good weight-carrying capacity. Their voyage had to be aborted after two extremely severe hurricanes, but they made it back to Japan both times. Thanks for the link to the other site, and thanks for running this site, Frank. I get a lot of enjoyment out of it! Anyone else with comments on my hybrid?

Well, this isn't about a B&B design (my usual hangout), and it isn't a Stevenson design, but I have a question regarding the old Seabird yawl. If you're interested in my idea, it would help if you had a copy of Woodenboat's first catalogue of boatplans or other drawings of the two versions. I got the plans for the plywood version (MacGregor, 1939) some time ago (more for my education than anything else), and while I find the hull design fascinating, I find the rig very complicated. This version has a keel (2'6") with lead ballast (1230#) and a bronze center-plate. The original plank-on-frame version (Day, Mower, 1903) has a very simple gaff rig, shallower keel (1'11") and a larger plate. I would consider the idea of giving up some windward performance for a simpler rig (at about half the cost!) by putting the older rig on the newer hull. The big question, and why I'm taking up all this space, is this: would deleting the smaller plate of the plywood version make the windward performance much worse? If not, this boat starts looking VERY interesting in terms of simplicity, strength and seaworthy-ness. After all, Capt Day sailed the original (with added keel) across the Atlantic, and Capt. Voss weathered two Pacific typhoons in another early version. Thanks for wading through all this! I'm hoping someone in here enjoys this sort of speculation as much as I do! Just dreaming, I'm in no position to build, but I love "pocket-cruisers", and I haven't found a lot of info on the Seabird.

I'd like to add one more bowsprit advantage to "PAR"'s excellent essay. If you look at a plan view (overhead) of the same vessel with and without the bowsprit, you'll notice that the angle of the forestay to the shrouds is different. A foresail can be sheeted in tighter. This and the change in Center of Effort, seem to be two common reasons why existing rigs are sometimes modified by adding a bowsprit. The big modern downside is that many marinas charge by overall length over spars! Of course, a cat ketch dodges the whole issue altogether, hence the popularity of the B and B two-stickers.

I just read your requirements more carefully. This dory is probably too big. Oh well, I'm still interested in comments regarding this design, as I like the simplicity and purity of it. Thanks!

I recently recieved a set of plans for jeff Spira's Nova Scotia Grand Banks dory. The boat is designed to be built with easlily available materials. Althogh not as simple as some of the instant boat-type skiffs, it looks like a very good boat for salt water. The interior is left largely to you to figure out. There is a very simple rudder and mast design included, although I think the sail rig itself is too complicated for a non-centerboard dory. I would use a sprit or lug-sail, not worry about a centerboard and expect to row to windward or make a lot of tacks. I understand dories can sail (somewhat) to windward without a center-board because of their underwater shape (comments from experienced dory users?). Spira offers other boats and dories as well. I had heard mixed reviews of his stuff in the past. I can only say that I got my plans in 4 days and they are clear and well-drawn. I believe this boat would be as simple as many less-capable boats to build, as long as you understand the fact that it is a basic workboat (which is what attracted me to it). Anyway, some food for thought for you!

Graham and Fred, congratulations on a great race!

I just checked the Watertribe site. Fred and Graham are kicking stern! If they keep going like this (knock on epoxy/ply), I think this is going to raise the profile of the Core Sound family a lot. A lot can happen in the real world of adventure of course, but even if it does, hats off to them for the first half of the race! Wow!

I have often thought of how much fun this type of competition would be, especially for families. Glad to see someone does them! I especially like the idea of some rowing, low brdges and other challenges thrown in. In Scotland, the Great Glen Raid was a similar event, running the length of the Caledonian canal (including Loch Ness). Anything like it in the Pacific Northwest? Aside from the obvious Puget Sound location, the Lower Columbia could be a challenging venue. Anyway, good luck Graham, and have a blast!

Rob, I'm very glad to see that you're safe and no one was hurt, especially since you sail with kids so often! Thank you for sharing the information on your dismasting. This is time I've heard of this type of mast breaking, has anyone else done it?

I have seen designs where the aft mast is slightly offset a few inches to allow the centerboard case to be centered, however the usual solution is to have the case off center. I believe having the aft mast off center will result in a "good tack-bad tack" imbalance. BUT, what if BOTH masts are off on the same side ala Bolger? Anyone seen that?

As a very poor person who's some time away from building a Core Sound 20, I'm enjoying (and envying) everyone's progress. I'm especially interested in yours since I believe we're not too far apart and I would love to see it when you're done. FYI, since at the moment I'm carless and sharing an apartment, I went the portable boat route: a Sevylor Fish Hunter inflatable plus a rig from "Sailboats-to-Go". Weird looking but it actually works, I'm sailing my own boat for the first time in many years. Which makes the important point: the best boat is the one you got. Meanwhile I'll keep drooling over my CS20 plans, and wait to see pic's of the first Princess 26!

Rob, your posts are an inspiration as always, especially the pictures from paradise. It's a little off this forum's subject, but as someone who's always been interested in dorys, could you tell me a little about your friend's Mary Bryant. I have a weakness for anything that floats with a workboat heritage. Thanks!

P.S. to my above: Rob, I saw the article in Wooden Boat about Jenny and Big Jenny. I once saw the plans for The Carpenter (Jenny) in a book of someones favorite designs (can't remember the author, but it was either Good Boats or Still More Good Boats). The design was by Herreshoff and was a companion to a larger boat called (of course) The Walrus. The commission, as I recall, was for a pair of boats to explore out-of-the-way places. I believe the ancestry of The Carpenter was in the Swampscott or Chamberlin Dory family, both by lines and construction. I think that The Carpenter would be a lot easier to row, but obviously can't stand up to sail or have the room on board that the Core Sound does. Beautiful boat though! We probably have more designs around now suited to open-boat cruising than ever before. What fun to figure out which one's best for each of us!

Rob, thanks for the encouragement, I have been following your progress for a long time and I was happy to see you enjoying the payoff. While I have no children of my own, I work with kids in theatre, and I have very strong feelings about the way we as a culture are raising (or not raising) them. This may seem a wandering off from this builders forum, but I think it gets to the heart of why we are attracted to these kinds of boats. Here in the Pacific Northwest the number of boaters running around with more horsepower than brains is scary. Oregon has now had to introduce mandatory boat "driver's licences". The more boats like the Core Sounds or any of the other fine designs out there that are sailing around without burning tons of fuel (even with a small outboard tipped up on the transom!), the better chance we have of educating the new generation that there is more to boating than roaring V-8's and scared wildlife. If I ever get this thing built, there will always be room on board for young families to learn about our approach to boats and adventures. There, I feel better now. Anybody figured out where I can mount the grapeshot-loaded swivel guns?

Thanks to all. I can't wait to see the plans, as I have been researching the idea of open-boat cruising for some time. Although I have a yen for more traditional looking boats (Drascombes, Oughtred's, and dories of all kinds), the Core Sound struck me as a good "expedition boat". I was just down at the Willamette river after reading from the journals of Lewis and Clark. The Missouri river part of their journey has put dangerous ideas in my head, like where to mount a swivel gun to fight off jet-skiers!

First, thank you to Travis and Graham for your thoughtful replies to my inquiry regarding the Princess 22. As pretty and clever as the Princess is, I must confess that at the time I joined the forum I was suffering from a bout of BBS*. The real reason I had been keeping an eye on this forum was my long-time interest in open boat cruising. I gave myself a stern talking to, and have just ordered plans for the Core Sound 20. It will be a while till I can even think about building, but at least I will have the plans to dream over this winter. I'm already planning adventures in the Northwest! Keep up the great forum. I'll need it! * Bigger Boat Syndrome - a common malady amongst sailors. Treat with cold showers and a dose of reality.

As a retired sailor with big dreams and little means, I'm looking for a small cruiser to have adventures with. I am quite interested in the Princess 22. My "mission requirements" include decent sailing ability, value for money, and a draft/rig dropping ability to facilitate poking into out of the way places the rest of the sailing crowd doesn't normally get to. I am in the Pacific Northwest (Oregon). I would primarily be cruising alone or with one other. I have some sailing and boating experience, and am a cautious mariner. My inspirations include Arthur Ransome, Joseph Conrad and Erskine Childers. I would really appreciate comments from anyone building or owning a Princess, or comments in general about B & B's designs. Sincerely, Brian W. P.S. For B & B: the enthusiasm of your customers as reflected in the posts I have seen in this forum are a very good reference for your business. Good for you!