point of no return...help

[rmckdo]

ok i have been in denial about the warp of my second keel... it seems when I placed all the clamps on it to keep the edges together it would not lie on the ground...I suspect this imparted my warp as it appears to be worse from the stem up.

]So I could (with sig aggrevation) some how replace it (bottm and transom already attached). In the long run will it really matter? My concern is how will I know where the center line should be to line the deck center line up with cuz its crooked

can I send a photo to someone to post?

[Barry Pyeatt]

Sure, e-mail it to me, I'll post it for you. Don't panic yet! There is more than one way to handle this challenge.

First find a good comfortable "moaning chair!...... :wink:

I sent you a private message with my e-mail address.

[Craig]

Send Berry the phioto and after we look at it we will all try to help. THis is not the end of the boat by any means.

[Konrad in Lincoln]

No worries.

There's all KINDS of things you can worry about if you want.

When I built my Vacationer back in '99, I eventually discovered that somehow I had a difference of 2" in freeboard from one side to the other. I worried about it for almost two minutes, then moved on. If it's bothering the boat, I sure don't know about it yet.

[Mike Pennington]

You tell'em, Konrad! :wink:

[Barry Pyeatt]

Ok, I cropped it, changed the exposure some so it can be seen compared to the rest of the boat.

He gave us a nice head on shot.

[attachment over 4 years old deleted by admin]

[Barry Pyeatt]

OK, guys, shall we tell him for real what needs to be done? :twisted:

Or shall we make it easy on him?

The Charles Atlas approach>>>>longer lever rules the world? :?

Change the fulcrum, brace the stem, get the ratcheting straps out?

2X4 and a block and tackle?

Hot water and a cold shower?

Take a little off the side and fill in on the other? :roll:

Wedgees?

Or will he have a boat that turns perpetually to port?

[Barry Pyeatt]

Looks to me like the vertical portion of the stem is not too bad. You can probably live with that just fine and no one will ever be the wiser.

It certainly won't make a difference in how it sails.

So the stem itself under the bowsprit is the challenge.

I say sandwich it between a couple 4X4's and brace the keel so it won't move. And then twist it with a couple ratchet straps or a block and tackle and let it set for a few days. Apply some hot water with towels to the stem just below the junction, apply a heating pad, wrap it up and let it sit.

[Mike Henderson (Oregon)]

How about kerf it up one side and down the other about and inch apart. Spooge in some thickened epoxy both sides. Do the 4X4 plus strap wrenchy thingy to straighten it out and then let it set up. fill/sand, fill/sand until desired smoothness. :roll:

[Russ Sylvester]

I agree with what has already been said and will add one idea.

When your at the point of adding rigging to the bowsprit I would add sidestays (I'm sure there is a proper nautical name for these but I don't know it) to the tip of the bowsprit. This way you can pull the stem a little bit to starboard if you can't get all of the warp out now. You would end up with a forestay and two sidestays to the bowsprit. Actually that would look pretty salty anyway.

[Craig]

I think the kerfing and hot water ideas are good. I believe I would kerf, soak, and try to get as much of the warp out as I could before I added the epoxy filler. Once it is filled that's it. Russ has a great idea for pulling any remaining warp out but don't attach more than 4 inches or so beyond the end of the stem or it will just bend the sprit. Bending the sprit some may be the final answer to get the last of the missalignment out however. Do what you can with the stem and the pull the rest out with the chains and turn buckles. Fixed to a krantz iron at the tip and you can walk out the chains to work the head stay. Look at some photos of the o;ld schooners and youwill see similar rigging.

[Stuart Benbow]

I don't know if I'd go to the extreme of kerfing the stem just yet. most likely, ratchetting and soaking should do the trick for the most part.

As to the horizontal lines to tension the bowsprit, they're whisker stays, and to see how they'd look on a Stevenson boat, Chris Gerkin's been working on doing just that, though for different reasons. He's got a 10' sprit he just finished for his Vacationer.

Here is Chris's bowsprit, complete with a krantz iron at the tip, with a fourth connection point to hook up a bobstay below as well. Chris has also added a second krantz iron further back in what looks to be a move towards a cutter rig.

In this shot, you can see where he will be connecting the shrouds, and further forward, the connection for the whisker stays.

A close-up of the connection for the whisker stay.

As you can see, Chris has elevated his boatbuilding to an artform, but it serves the purpose of demonstrating how to add whisker stays to a bowsprit.

Hope this helps,

[Russ Sylvester]

There ya go! Whisker stays, I knew there had to be a name for them.

I swear, every time I see a floating piece of sculpture like some of you guys build, it just makes me want to go out burn my boat and call it a day. Where in the world did Chris get those chainplates???

[Stuart Benbow]

According to one of his posts on the byyb:

"I found a great bronze hardware source. The stuff is expensive (I only planned on building one boat). They are Tendercraft in Ontario Canada. Their quality is great and they are very easy to work with.

800-588-4682"

[Mark Hughes]

Well, if it makes you feel better, mine has a similar warp in about the same place. Not quite as pronounced as yours, but definitely noticeable. I was planning on giving it the 4X4 and ratchet strap treatment, soaking it down for a couple of days, and adding two additional bolt holes down through the bowsprit and let the base of the bowsprit keep it in line. I do like the whisker stays, though. Hadn't thought of that, even while drooling over Chris' pictures the first time! Probably the extra bolts and the whisker stays in combination would be just what the Dr. ordered.

[rmckdo]

ok thanks...I might just live with it...going on vacation to the outer banks in NC and use my beach moaning chair!

rob

[Barry Pyeatt]

Ok Rob,

Here is one approach that has proven successful in the past.

It involves cutting a few kerfs about 3/4" apart and across the neck of the stem as it comes from vertical to horizontal. Three, maybe four of them from the top edge to the throat area.

They need to be just about 3/4" deep as well.

Then go to the opposite side and repeat the same kerfs, again about 3/4" deep.

Literally take a 4X4 on the back side (Port side) and a 2X4 or 2X6 on the front side. These should be maybe 4-6 ft. long. Put a block between them that is the same thickness as the stem (2 1/4") at both ends. This keeps the space equal along the area being moved.

Brace the keel so it won't shift or twist from side to side.

Then literally take two small blocks and tackles and from opposing sides pull (twist) the stem past the straight point. This has to be eye balled most likely. Then let it set for a couple days. The wood will relax a little and it will straighten out most of the way.

Now while it is in this position, take a piece of aluminum foil and cover the kerfs up to just about the top of the cuts. Tape that in place over each kerf so it forms a dam or form. You are going to pour epoxy into each kerf from the top.

Mix a thin batch of slow-set epoxy and with a small funnel, allow the epoxy to fill up each kerf. It will settle down and seal it completely. It will also shrink a little. But it will hold the wood straight. Allow it to set up completely. Then fill it in if it needs more.

After it has set and cured completley you can remove the blocks and the supporting pieces and it will be a lot straighter than before. It may not be perfect, but none of them are.

It won't affect performance one bit. And when you get the stringers and sides on the hullform will be intact. You can shift the bowsprit just a little when assembled if needed and that should make up the difference.

When you finish installing the bulkheads and bring the deck on top. It will align just fine in all probability.

This does work, I have seen it done repeatedly with situations far worse than you are facing and in the end the boats have turned out beautifully.

The alternative to make it perfect. Cut the stem off and make up a new one. But it is not guaranteed that it will be straight either.

Good luck Rob. We've all been there and we're pulling for you.

[rmckdo]

I was thinking...I do have another complete keel and stem...I made another seeking perfection..(ha ha)

could I somehow cut off at the stem/keel joint and afixx it to the current one?

[Barry Pyeatt]

Yes...Think large mortice and tendon. Create a large tongue (tendon) out of the center layer, by removing the side layers down low on the keel. Do just the opposite with the stem leaving the outer layers and a void (Mortice) in the center. They will have to fit quite well. Then you can join them together and fill the voids with epoxy as you put it together. Thru bolt it and tighten it down using large fender washers to pull it all together. After it sets up, remove the bolts and fill the holes, or countersink the bolts and fill over them. I would build a frame out of maybe plywood to hold the stem perfectly in place and aligned while it sets up. But that isn't too hard to do.

But honestly Rob, personally I would kerf it and twist it.