Plywood Rub rails?

[Mark Gudschinsky]

My weekender is quickly heading for the Rub Rail step and there is no 16" Mahogany in sight. I do have shorter 1 x 2 stock that I will probable use. I also have quit a bit of plywood available, (I'm using okumee.)

An idea that I've been mulling about is to use 3 layers of 1/4" plywood epoxied on as rub rails. They would be easy to apply, but would they hold up?

Input?

[Barry Pyeatt]

Rub rails are generally considered to be sacrificial and will need to be replaced eventually. Plywood doesn't hold up too well to impacts or rubbing across its rather thin veneers.

I would consider scarfing shorter lengths of material together to make up the rails instead. I'll also give you a hint about how to get some good material relatively inexpensively if you are going to paint it.

Look at the finger jointed fir that is made up of shorts. It is good solid stock and clear of knots. It also is quite solid. Easily shaped and finished. I would coat it with a bit of epoxy and then paint it with a good porch and deck enamel and it should hold up for years.

[Mark Gudschinsky]

Sacrificial! Need to be replaced! I'm having enough trouble getting time to build it the first time.

Ok, I'll use solid stock. But if Rub Rails may endup needing to be replaced I should probably reconsider epoxie.

[Simon]

I just finished epoxying mine on ...

I reckon by the time I come to replace them I won't mind pulling out the jigsaw and carefully cutting them off flush with the hull sides. This could be an issue if they were screwed as well, but in the end I decided to just go with glue. I'll let you know how they work out in a couple of years once I've finished building....

Anyway I think they'll probably last long enough for me to sell the boat and then they'll become somebody elses problem 8) 8)

Edited part: with my new perspective as a pollywog (love the tail) I can now see that my rubrails will almost certainly outlast the boat anyway .... :shock:

[Barry Pyeatt]

Hey guys, I'm just saying that the rub rails are designed to protect the hull andsides of the boat from banging into things. If they don't take the abuse that some boaters subject them to then they aren't doing their job.

I've seen how some people stop a boat too many times. So I think Sacrificial is OK!

That is why they make fenders, to protect rub rails. :roll:

I would rather have to replace a rub rail or a portion there of than to have to rebuild a hull/deck that got all torn up. Just me I guess. But then I think we are building these boats to enjoy them. So the rub rails will take some abuse now and then. Sorry...that is just the way it is.

So that is why I wouldn't use plywood for the rub rails. Geez! :wink:

[Mike Pennington]

Barry,

Returning from Paxson Lake last fall, I stopped at a gas station in Delta Junction. I had to manuver around a low boy and I guess I got a little close to the pumps. :roll: Any way after I moved the pump out of my way, I took a look at the rub rail, OOOPS! Thank the Lord for epoxy, minor damage only, never mind the grey streak across the face of the gas pumps.

I installed the trail boards yesterday, after two years, now I can get further out on to the sprit, incase I have sail trouble this tuesday. The joke is on me with this one. I am predrilling some holes for the lag bolts, into the upper stem beneath the sprit, I say to myself, "This is some tough stuff!" Smoke is flying off the tip of that drill bit. "Dang that epoxy is tough," I tell myself, I had no idea it could harden up in to a surface like steel. I am getting no where fast. I pull the bit out, look at the tip, looks good, hummm? Then I look at the reverse switch, doh! :shock:

[Russ Sylvester]

About the third or fourth time you tie up to a dock on a choppy day with no fenders you'll soon learn the definition of sacrificial. They are going to get dinged, banged, scraped and bashed every time you go out.

I found 1x2x16 douglas fir for the rubrails and I spent the time finishing them with stain and varnish. They look great if you spend the time refinishing them after a few sails. I won't do it again when it comes time to replace them.

[High C]

I'm making my rubrails and toerails out of treated pine. It's widely available in 4/4 or 5/4 in 16' lengths. Look for boards with straight, tight grain. Treated pine is pretty tough, very cheap, and easy to bend/work.

Some people will say the stuff doesn't belong on a boat, but I know a gifted boat builder who builds up to 70 footers who swears by the stuff. Just be careful not to breathe the sawdust of poke yourself with a splinter.

I'll use a bedding type caulk and screws to fasten the rails to the hull for easy removal in the future. I'm a fender guy, and I try not to bang 'em up. It would help if my motor had reverse!

[Barry Pyeatt]

I think you will find that there is a lot of pressure treated wood used in boat building. Especially in the commercial end of things. The pressure treated marine plywood is commonly used as is wood for structural parts and pressure treated boards and timbers are used for rub rails and all manor of parts that are going to have abuse. It simply holds up better than non-treated woods. If it is going to be painted then there are some compatability issues with some paints and you certainly wouldn't probably want to have them "brite" but if you are going for that functional "30' workboat" type of finish, then why not use it for rub rails. Not all of it is green, some of it is that wonderful red earth brown.

But yes, wear a respirator/dust mask when you sand it, and don't burn the scrap or sawdust. Some people also have a sensitivity to the sawdust/shavings with skin exposure as well. So you will want to cover up and wash down good with soap and water after working with it.

[ken connors]

any of you guys heard of a wood called meranti? its a type of mahogany, but not as pretty as your usual mahogany. fairly cheap to get around here, tho. ive got it on my rubrails, taffrail, some cockpit trim and coamings. seems strong and hard, bends well if you watch the grain, and planes easily.

[Frank Hagan]

any of you guys heard of a wood called meranti? its a type of mahogany' date=' but not as pretty as your usual mahogany. fairly cheap to get around here, tho. ive got it on my rubrails, taffrail, some cockpit trim and coamings. seems strong and hard, bends well if you watch the grain, and planes easily.[/quote']

Yep, indeed. Its an african mahogany, I think, and is used extensively in boat building plywood. More rot resistant in ply than okume, but a bit heavier, which doesn't matter at all on boat trim. From all reports, good stuff.

Sheesh! 1 x 12 x 16 oak boards, meranti, and Simon has all that Jarrah on his boat. All "premium" and "exotic" woods where I am, with a price tag to match. Of course, it would help if I lived somewhere that actually had trees.

[Andrew]

Ahhhh....Frank - you can't get the wood and seaeagle and I can't get the water

Seaeagle and I may have some great trees around us, but we're approx 160 miles from the coast

We have 3 'local' lakes, the biggest being 4.5 miles long. Ahh well, I'll just have to convince the boss to transfer me to Cairns - the reef would be a lovely place for a Weekender!

[Barry Pyeatt]

Ken,

There is a Dark Red Meranti from Malaysia and it is widely used for joinery work, window frames, sashes, etc because it works well, finishes out nicely and makes good pealer logs for plywood. It is harder and denser than the Red Mahogany, fir, spruce, pine and holds a screw better. Makes nice plywood too, used mostly in Europe for furniture and cabinetry. There is some marine graded ply that is made from Red Meranti and it is nice stuff but pricy,

Kinda priced at a premium up here in the Northwest if you can find it. Boards are a rare commodity here, mahogany is less expensive and more commonly available.

There is another subspecies imported from Africa that is not quite as pretty, but has most of the other characteristics of the Dark Red and I was told that it is what we normally see as meranti plywood for construction.

We should ask Johannah about it as she is our resident botanical resource.

Frank has some really nice wood down there in California but it isn't so great for boatbuilding (Redwood), but it sure makes nice outdoor furniture and decks.

[ken connors]

i think i probably have the african stuff, considering the price and the fact that the grain isnt as pretty as other mahoganies ive seen. doesnt matter to me since im pretty sure im gonna oil it down instead dealing with the maintenance of varnish. :?

[tdrown]

Sheesh! 1 x 12 x 16 oak boards' date=' ...Of course, it would help if I lived somewhere that actually had trees.[/quote']

Heh. I am reading this as I am sanding my Oak grab rails. Wow, this stuff is a lot stronger and harder than pine, more so than I expected. I will probably steam bend my rub rails in a someone's steam bender that I know. I should have had our big oak tree taken to the mill when we had it taken down, my yard is full of them.

I feel for you guys (Andrew/Sea Eagle) It is far to the ocean for me too, closest ocean is either New York City and the Northern Jersey Shore, or southern Delaware (the is of course the Delaware and Chesapeak bays) I will have to see how Lake Nockamixon does, I've tried the Sunfish out on it and I had no wind, it is supposed to be a pretty windy lake, but I haven't seen that happen yet. The other lakes around here I would probably be englufed with powerboat wake. All of the lakes are still very small. My family is vactioning at Cape Cod this summer, I intend to take my boat and sail it around there.

As for plywood rub rails... As you hear they ding up quickly. often, and easily. I haven't sailed my boat yet, so I am not really one to talk, but you will probably be having layers of your plywood rubrails come off. This may be conveient since you could replace each layer one at a time, but things don't really work that easy. I've found that things come in 1x12 more often than 1x2", you can always rip a 1x12 down into the rails, thats what I am doing.

[Barry Pyeatt]

Mike,

Don't feel all that bad, same thing has happened to me many times. My brother (a very good finished carpenter and woodworker) helped me to put my rub rails on. The first one only took us about 3-4 hours, needed 3 people, 20 clamps and it sprung off the boat two times completely while we were trying to clamp it. OOOPS indeed! :oops: Then when we were drilling/countersinking holes we were working with two cordless and one electric drills so we wouldn't have to change bits and so on. We couldn't get the drill/counter sink to work, the bit kept spinning on us. We would bind down the set screw in it and as soon as it hit the wood it would spin. I'll bet we fought with that for about 20 min before we found out that the set screw was jammed and the drill bit was tight until pressure was put on the tip and then nothing. That was the second DUH :oops: :oops:

We were going thru one inner rail, the plywood and into the outer rail and I couldn't get the screwdriver bit to grab and hold. Would start up just fine and then just die. Changed batteries, :idea: checked the reverse switch :idea: :idea: and still had the problem. That is when my brother reached over and simply tightened the clutch on the drive. :oops: :oops: :oops: :roll:

Then he and I both had bumped the reverse switch on the drill and couldn't get it to drill for us either. Yes, we were both trying to drill backwards just like you. DOH INDEED! :? :oops: :x :arrow: :roll:

Second rail only took about 45 min.