Progress as of yet

[tdrown]

Yesturday I put on the two front side hull pieces permanatly, I plan to do the rear side pieces in 12 hours (I need to sleep yet...)

I ended up adding too much catalyst to two batches to the resin and ended up runing two brushes and two coffee cans that would have been thrown away anyway, but some of resin hardend before I could use it.

The cabin trunk was attached last week.

The seat parts are all cut out

I am not attaching my hatch box, I will just throw it in the cockpit when I am in the cabin. Coincidently someone started talking about not adding the hatch box on the byyb.org site a few days after I thought about not attaching mine, suspicious.

I cut the main roof part today

The grab rails were lofted staggered to save space. I will be using the same premium oak I will be using for my rub rails. In other news a person from my neighborhood who I did not know came over and introduced himself. He is building a boat using traditional construction and has a boatshop. He also gave me the name for a place that sells cheaper lumber! unfortunatly I have bought all my lumber I believe, I just need the 4x4's for the mast and bowspirit. I also got a few calls for the dark grey 1988 beautiful Buick Century. This wonderful car has smooth chrome lines, ice cold air conditioning, and a powerful engine and more importantly it could be yours for a messing-about discount price of $888, (all proceeds go to Build Tyler Drown a boat fund). This week I hope to finish the sides, do the seats, finish the cabin, get the fiberglass, and start glassin and painting. This may be a little ambitious, but I am up for the challange.

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[tdrown]

opps didn't post that grabrail picture, it's not completely cut out yet...

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[Frank Hagan]

You're killing me! I can't find oak like that ... especially white but even red oak ... without paying an arm and a leg for it!

[Barry Pyeatt]

Hey Tyler,

It is looking more and more like a Weekender. Gets pretty exciting at this stage. That is a major accomplishment getting both those front side panels installed. I had to do mine alone. No one to hold the other end of the panel for me. Glad to hear you have a neighbor that is willing to help a little now and then. Especially one with tools!

I think it is great that you found someone else building a boat in your area. That will be a good resource for both of you. He is doing a more traditional plan and that is good, you can see how that is accomplished and how your stressed skin, construction compares. Good experience.

I'm also envious that you found some really nice Oak. If we can find good Oak here it is like gold. Especially if we can find any that is wider than 8" and especially in a 16' length. You are going to find that it will be a tough rail to bend into place most likely. Just take your time and if it doesn't want to bend all the way you may have to learn how to steam it. That will be interesting and a good project. Just remember, start at the bow and get it set inplace and then work your way back, one clamp/screw at a time after you get it clamped into place. You are going to need help with that, patience and a lot of clamps. But you can do it.

If you are going to round over the edges with a router, it will probably help if you do that first. Not necessary on the hull side though.

[Frank Hagan]

Barry, how would you go about steaming a rubrail that long? I suppose you could make a really long steambox out of ABS pipe coupled together. I've never done any steam bending so I don't know if the steam would fill such a long pipe without dissapating towards the end. And do you know if you can just soak the wood? I've heard that some traditional boats were built with a technique that soaked the wood in water for a long period of time before attempting to bend. Not sure that would work with 1 x oak!

I used scarfed 1 x phillipine mahogany, and it bent well as long as I took it slowly as I went. Tyler could make the rub rails a bit thinner too, without affecting the looks of the boat. 5/8" thick might be easier to bend than the 3/4" net that a 1x is.

[tdrown]

I just sold my other Buick! Score! (actually they just only put $50 down on it, they will call back later to cement the deal, they got me down to $820). I will go call up some friends and put on the aft sides now. About the rub rails, I was afriad of them being dificuly to bend, planing it down is a good idea. I just have to see if the planer at school has 16' in front and behind it! Should I include a drip grove and route it before I put them on the sides? That oak (probably red, I forgot to ask) was a find, I couldn't find a lot of things other than pine in 1x, nevermind 16'. But yesturday a guy came buy and told me he can get it for $1-2/bf, but he still said that 16' is hard to come by. It was priced $7/bf and I payed $6.25/bf($100, the owner had a little sympathy for me). Never the less, that 16' board was really a find.

[Guest Anonymous]

The rub rails can be a challange. This is when you feel like you need about 10 people with 20 hands and a similar number of clamps to hold things.

Actually, it is not too bad a job with just two people and some patience. One person can do it alone, but I think that with Oak it would be a really frustrating experience and it is likely that the rail could be broken.

There are a couple major challenges with the rails, first is that you are bending them in more than one direction. They not only wrap around the side panel and the rail is trying to conform to the curve of the hull side, but then you are asking it to bend in another shallow bend with the stem and stern higher than the low point adjacent to the rear bulkhead. To top it off, the entire process is being attempted with it trying to fall off because the side is in most cases falling away under it.

Tyler,

You might just consider, as Frank just suggested, taking the thickness down to 5/8 of an inch so that the cross section of the rail is 5/8" X 1 1/2" or even 1 1/4". This can be done two ways and your contractor friend may be able to help you set up to do it on the table saw. Even better would be to use a thickness planer to bring it down to the 5/8" thick strips.

Here is how I would proceed to do this.

You are going to want to use a "brand new" thin kerf Carbide tip Combination blade. These are not that expensive, Usually less than $20 for one that will work well for this. I would then rip a 3" wide strip off of the board using the straightest grain possible from the piece. You are going to want to avoid wild grain running out the side of the strip if at all possible. Then run this strip thru the thickness planer to bring it down to 5/8" thickness. This will leave you with a blank that is 5/8" X 3" X 16'.

If you don't have access to a thickness planer, then you can rip the board to 5/8" thickness by running it on edge thru the table saw and only cutting half way thru the board in several passes over the saw. You are going to want to have a feather board to hold the board against the rip fence and make your first cut only about 1/2 to 3/4" deep into the blank, then turn it over end for end and cut it in the other side the same depth. Then raise the blade about another 3/8 to 1/2" and repeat and finally to 1 1/2" and run the board thru cutting both sides to the middle. This is a process that is a little tricky if you don't have the blade and the fence absolutley at 90 degrees to the table. And you have to allow the blade to cut the wood, don't force it thru. Oak is a beautiful wood, and it is very hard, you are going to ask your saw to cut the full length of the board several times here and you don't want to force it or make a mistake. If you force it you will heat up the blade too much and it will burn its way thru and ruin the blade. Shallow cuts and repeat.

Another way is if you have access to a bandsaw and can have someone help you to rip the strips to 5/8" thick using the bandsaw with a fence on it.

I would then round over two of the top flat edges on the blank leaving the opposing side square ( this will be the side that goes against the hull.)

Then rip the blank down the middle to give you two even strips approx. 1 1 3/8" X 5/8" X 16" with one edge rounded over. These are now your rub rails.

If you are going to try to sandwich rails to capture the plywood between them then you will need to cut two more just like above. One of them will need to have a rabbit cut into one edge of it to accept the plywood. The other (outer) rail will be full dimension.

In planning this you will now have your ply hull side and you are going to trial fit the strip to the outside edge so you can establish a nice fair line to the top edge of your hull side panels.

They will need to be trimmed to the final shape after doing all of this.

The rail will be placed flat as possible against the hull with the rounded over edge down and facing away from the boat. The top edge will be rounded over after you have it all assembled.

With the help of another person (or more if possible), you are going to trial fit the first rail in place so that you can mark the hull so you will know where to position the rail and establish the top line of the sides. This will take a little trial and error, stand back and eyeball it and then adjust it and check it again method of work. Don't rush it and check it from as many angles as you can to see if it looks correct. You may decide to raise it a little here and maybe lower it there. Just adjust the clamps and move it a little at at time and re-clamp it. This is pretty important to the overall looks of your boat as it is the visual line that defines the shape of the boat. And once you have it in place and the panels top edge cut, it is very difficult to change it. So take your time and see if it is right for you. Try to mentally eliminate the rough top plywood edge as you go and see how the rail looks along the side. When you have it where you think you want it. You can drill a few holes along the inside edge of the plywood and put some temporary screws thru the ply and into the rail to hold it in place.

This is the hard part of the entire process, because the Oak may not want to bend to this curve without some care. You can force it and it may split on you. If you don't have a lot of clamps to hold it in place it may split.

You are going to start at the bow and clamp the rail against the side at the height you think you want it. Then one by one, bring the wood up to the side and work your way back along the side clamping as you go. Work slowly and allow the wood to relax as much as possible as you work your way back.

It will still want to straighten out and if you drill a hole in it now it may break where you drill the hole. This is why you want a lot of clamps to hold it. Even pressure along the length.

If it doesn't want to bend tight, then you have a couple choices. You can put another strip against it and using it to help, try to bend it a little more at a time until it gets where you want it. Then just let it sit. It will relax a little as it assumes this new shape.

If this doesn't work, you can soak it overnight in a trough lined with polyethelene and weighted down so the wood is completely covered. It would help if this were hot water continuously, but that is not practical. The next day you can check and see if the strip is a little more limber and it may then bend into place. If not, then steaming may be your only viable option. And this can be accomplished with a fairly simple steam box.

I have steam bent Ash and Oak planks as thick as 2" and as long as 20' in the past but this is how I would approach it.

The "Steam Box" in this case would be two 10' lengths of 3" ABS pipe with a coupler to join them in the middle and a cap for both ends. I would cut one length of ABS to 6' and this with the coupler and the other 10' length make up a tube a little over 16' long. I would then drill a hole for a hose fitting into the middle of one end cap and glue a PVC Standard hose fitting into this hole. You are going to need an all purpose Plumbing adhesieve for this.

Then drill another 1/4" hole in the outside edge of the end so it will be a drain hole. The other end will have a 1/4" hole drilled in it for a vent/pressure release. Just a hole.

When you put the ends on the pipe, this is going to be your steam box. It will not have any pressure built up inside it to speak of so it won't explode.

I would rent a commercial steamer from a tool rental place because you aren't going to need it very long. They will have a hose fitting on them and you will need a High temp Washing machine hose to connect the steamer to the box.

If you have some house insulation, you can wrap the box to help hold the heat and this will help. Simply wrap it a couple times around the pipe and hold it in place with duct tape on the outside. The pipe will get hot to the touch and the insulation will help hold the heat inside.

The process is to take your strip of wood that has soaked for some time and is not just wet on the surface and place it into the box. Put the ends on the box, elevate the end opposite the steam input about 18" and start up the steam machine. It will take several hours to get the Oak pliable.

Now have everything ready to work, clamps, people and your reference lines set. Once you remove it from the steam box you are going to have to work very quickly because you will only have a few minutes before it begins to set. The strip will be "very hot", and will burn your hands so you are going to have to wear gloves to handle it. Old oven mits work fine to hold it against the hull while one person clamps the strip in place.

Again start at the bow, clamp one at a time working your way back quickly.

Then let it set in place while you get the wood ready to do the other side rail.

Once the wood has cooled and dried out, ( I would leave it overnight), it will retain the shape it was bent into and can now be attached. You can take the clamps off and the wood rail will be bent. You can now use adhesieve and clamp it back in place. I would space the screws 4" apart from the inside out, removing the clamps from the front to the back as you go. I would also bring the heads down flush/to just slightly recessed with the plywood as you are going to be covering them with the half round or something else. If you just slightly countersink them you can use epoxy filler to fill and make them flush with the plywood on the inside.

Then do the same with the other side.

Once it is all in place, you can trim the plywood flush with the edge of the rail and then using a router and a round over bit you can shape the outer top edge of the rub tail. Attach the half round to the inside edge, fill any gaps along the top and you are ready to finish the rails.

[Barry Pyeatt]

Great news about selling the car, hope the sale closes as anticipated.

Sorry, thought I had signed in on the post above. Long but I tried to cover the process as clearly as possible.

The rub rails on the Weekender as placed on an angle away from the hull side, don't need a drip grove in them. It is one more area that can cause problems down the road. Keep it solid.

[Derek]

Yeah! Pictures! Good looking progress Tyler! You have quite the schedule ahead of you, but you still have a whole month. Keep us posted!

[tdrown]

I went and saw my neighbors boat shop that he has, he is building a 20' yawl, he has spent a year on it already and plans to spend a year more. Truely a beautiful boat, mostly oak and cedar. Carvel Planking, or something of that sort, sort of intimidating the amount of work it requires and how big and strong it is (2 ton displacement). He has a stem bender for up to 20' too! After I toured his shop (a 4 car garage with a loft he has rented out) I was able to eat dinner and put on the starboard aft hull side with the help of 2 people I recriuted who haven't helped me yet. everything went fine except at the ends of the panels the bottom lines up with the stringer, at the center of the panel it overhangs about 2" at worst. Is that normal, or is that because of my shortcomings as a boatbuilder? Also the plywood panel did not extend all the way past the top of the transome, I had to ad a small triangle there. I hope to get the other side on tomorrow. I am low on supplies though, almost out of #8 1" screws. I have to go wash the fiberglass resin out of my hair now.

[Derek]

Tyler, overhang is typical, the layout of the hull sides per plans is approximate. You will have overhang. Like Barry mentioned in my last thread, the key is that you have enough material at the top for rub rail/toe kick attachment. The triangle is common, you'll note in your plans that the Stevenson's do mention needing to cut small triangles from scrap. I needed a small piece at the bow.