Andrew Posted April 29, 2003 Posted April 29, 2003 Builder #2492 Has received his plans - be afraid, be very afraid Quote
Barry Pyeatt Posted April 29, 2003 Posted April 29, 2003 Watch out we may have another frequent poster. Capt. Jake, Tim and Ray may have a newbee chomping at their posting records. We don't really worry much about what Ken C posts unless he is recommending something. Then you definately don't want to try that at home. Or in the boat shed either. Quote
Frank Hagan Posted April 29, 2003 Posted April 29, 2003 Ah, another one bites the dust! Good to see you got the plans, Andrew. Be prepared for people to call you crazy ... don't worry though, you're not crazy because we did it too. And there can't be that many crazy people, can there? If there are, they are all here, and maybe that's why we all feel so "at home" here. There are a couple of other builders from "down under" who can help you with the wood selections ... the plans emphasize woods available from the west coast of Northern America which you won't be able to find there (or they will be very expensive). You have some of the best boat building woods in the world there locally, so don't be afraid to use them! I think you're the same Andrew that emailed me ... I'm behind on my personal email due to a work schedule this week that is killing me ("worked" yesterday, then had a 13 hour day today ... yikes! ... so I'm pretty much fried.) But I'll email you tomorrow and try to dig out a pic for you. Now that you've admitted you're going to build a boat, you have to keep us informed. Some of us are living our boatbuilding lives vicariously these days! We still need our boatbuilding fix, though. Quote
SeaEagle Posted April 29, 2003 Posted April 29, 2003 Andrew, I'm a Canberra based builder who has recently started building a weekender also - must be something in the water around here. It would be good to catch up and compare 'war stories' Good luck Quote
Andrew Posted April 29, 2003 Author Posted April 29, 2003 Fantastic - another nut in the same city! I had recently e-mailed the Stevensons to see if there was anyone nearby - they did suggest an e-mail address but I hadn't tried it 'cause I didn't have any plans etc. I'm in Wanniassa (to all u US folk this isn't an affliction, its a suburb), where r u? Quote
Russ Sylvester Posted April 29, 2003 Posted April 29, 2003 Wow! I hadn't realized that the builder/skipper numbers were up so high! Quote
ken connors Posted April 29, 2003 Posted April 29, 2003 congrats and good luck, andrew. youll find a lot help here. one word of caution though...... there is a certain poster here named barry pyeatt. he seems nice enough at first, then he gets to be a little "clingy". next thing you know stalking you, showing up at your house, where you work, etc. almost everyone on this site has a restraining order against him. just a heads- up. Quote
Barry Pyeatt Posted April 29, 2003 Posted April 29, 2003 Hummmm...lets see, lots of frequent flyer miles in the account. Would I rather go to say: Wickford, RI or Canberra or maybe back to Kauai! Tough decision! :? Quote
Andrew Posted April 30, 2003 Author Posted April 30, 2003 I don't mind the stalking...as long as you can answer all the following questions the plans call for a hardwood for the keel, but the Materials List says softwood - now I'm fairly certain its hardwood thats required - is that the same for the rudder and stem layers? Quote
Barry Pyeatt Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Well, Ok! As far as I could tell the plans and the Material List essentially agree that a Med. Softwood such as Doug. Fir, Southern Yellow Pine, Spruce are all just fine. Mahogany is a good choice because it is a pretty stable hardwood that is widely available. You just have to be careful about grain runout if you are cutting it for stringer use. There are a number of other good woods available in your part of the world that other builders have used and some of them are great. (Wish we had them here!) I was just talking with a chap here that is using fingerjointed 1X12 Clear Doug fir that he found for a great price. It should be very stable wood and since he is laminating three layers together it should be more like a glue lam beam when he gets done. He is painting it so the small pieces of wood glued up won't be any consideration at all. I would try to find a good clear vertical grain wood to use for the rudder if possible, but if not then a piece with very small tight knots. Mahogany again would be a good choice if reasonably priced in your area. Quote
SeaEagle Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Andrew, Q: Where r u? A: Isabella Plains - Just down the road ! With regards to timber for the keel - I've used Doug Fir / Oregon which other than a manufacturing fault (previously discussed here in a different thread) on my part, has worked really well. I intend to fix that problem this weekend. I know of other builders who have laminated the keel out of 1/2" Marine ply, which, when thinking about it seems like a reasonable option (although the cost of epoxy / glue might make this cost inhibitive) Quote
High C Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 I wouldn't make a keel out of ply unless I covered it with Kevlar. If you abrade the bottom of the keel thru the paint by running aground, you'll expose the plys to water absorption. With solid lumber you would be exposing the edges, which do not absorb water like end grain does. I'd sure want to use solid lumber, laminated as per the plans. Quote
tdrown Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Good luck with the build. I remember doing a lot of research on keel wood, but due to monitary restraints (AKA no job, at the moment)I had to forget about it and go with cheaper stuff, white pine. Although I have not tested it as I am not in the water yet, this is definatly not the best wood. I was going to have a combination of two woods for maybe $100 USD more: I didn't do this because of money, but the hardwood would have probably prevented my keel from warping like it did (less than 1", but still relevent since a screw or two missed), cedar is good for not-rot (or so I've heard) but it is very light, especially for a boat without a centerboard or ballast. Just a few ideas for you. If you haven't gotten the link yet go to the glen-l designs site and look at his detailed report on various woods in boat construction. Incredibly useful. Best of Luck! Tyler S. Drown Quote
Andrew Posted April 30, 2003 Author Posted April 30, 2003 Thanx Tyler I've been through the Glen-L chapter a couple of times - it's very US but I do have some good? news. I have found some ASH locally for approx AU$60 for all three layers or Jarrah for au$700. I kid you not. I e-mailed Simon about this price (he used smaller Jarrah pieces) and he reckons he didn't spend much over au$70. Guess the ASH could be a winner Quote
tdrown Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Actually Ash was the wood that was first recomended to me, from a man who knew what he was talking about too. Not only was my keel wood the cheapest, but I also was pretty bad with the circular saw and the plans (I cut all the keel peices the same, the middle ply is differnt). It wasn't until one of the stem pieces that I started to be confident about my abilities. I was told I had 'first cut fever', aviod this at all costs, cut something irrelivent first. Quote
Simon Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Just to clarify, the individual boards I used in my keel were between $AU50-70 making the total price for keel wood about $AU200. With about $AU50 worth of epoxy structural adhesive (Techniglue CA) it came to around $AU250 for the whole assembly. The Ash sounds like a fantastic price from that perspective, but I've no idea if its appropriate for this application or not. As I mentioned in the private message, the quote for Jarrah that you got must have been for a special order - like setting up the sawmill just to saw one plank - 12" is a fair bit larger than any standard sized jarrah around here - most of the plantation trees don't even get grown that large. It wouldn't surprise me if he didn't even have any stock lying around that large and was charging you to source and cut the plank as one off special order. Good luck with the Ash though Quote
Barry Pyeatt Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 I've actually taken quite a fancy to Simon's Jarrah-Jabba-vodoo-melingi whatever whood keel. My son tells me that he has one of my fathers turning sets and it has Jarrah wood handles. I asked him how he knew and he said it was in the shop note book that my father kept. I know it makes nice handles and finishes out beautifully. Also tough stuff. Ash would make a terrific keel. And it will take a beating. I've used Ash for keels in smaller boats before and for other framing parts. It is great wood to work with. Quote
Guest dmac Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 G'day Andrew, I'm in Melbourne and I used Kauri pine for my keel. Cost me about $400 from memory although it was a couple of years ago. Beautiful wood to work though, cuts like butter but doesn't seem to ding very easily. I used it for the rub rails too Regards Dave Quote
SeaEagle Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 I spoke with a Professional Boat building friend in New Zealand (who is familiar with Jarrah, Ash and D/Fir). I was advised that Jarrah is generally considered too heavy for boat building (although for a keel and given some of the discussions regarding extra ballist for the Weekender this might not be a bad solution). I discounted Jarrah based on cost - $550AU min. (Vic) Ash is considered fine in boat building for Framing / Stringers / Rub rails and great for steam bending etc - but was not recommended for the keel - although I can't find my notes at the moment so can't remember why :roll: Oregon or D/Fir was considered the best alround provided you can fine some clear(ish) cuts. The yards around all say that the Oregon timber around Canberra is not Marine grade - but a bit of careful selection should get you by - and it is considerably cheaper than Jarrah or Ash. Quote
Simon Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Yeah I can confirm that it is bl**dy heavy, but I had much the same thought - what better place to put a little extra weight! As to the price I'm very thankful that I live in a place where the Jarrah grows on trees! 8) 8) Quote
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