Weekender - On the trailer - now a question

[Andrew_Butchart]

At long last I finally have a trailer (new) for my Weekender.  This has been a monumental leap forward towards launch - I'm much more motivated to get done.

My tiny little car seems to pull the boat/trailer with lots of power to spare and I've tried out the steepest hills I can find.

As you can see in one of the pictures, the boat is sitting on the bunks.  These bunks appear to possibly shift although I've tightened them down.  Also, I have a concern about the stern of the boat drifting around on the highway and especially while re-loading.  It's been suggested elsewhere that the weight of the boat really should be on the keel.  There is a gap of about 7" between the bottom of the keel and the trailer frame at the back bracket.  I can't find a stock bracket that tall.

My questions are:

- Should I worry about this?

- Could I make a taller than standard keel roller mount using some angle-iron U-bolted to the frame or would it collapse under use?

- Would pieces of wood attached to this rear roller be sufficient to act as a guide?

- Should I do this at the centre frame which is roughly midships?

- Should I do something completely different?

Thanks

[PAR]

Andrew, the boat should rest on centerline rollers. Some use a keel box, but I don't like the idea of trapping moisture against the bottom of the keel. Rollers work fine and don't scrape off paint like a box can.

With the weight of the boat on the keel, the bunks just act to keep the boat from flopping over on her chines.

As you currently have it set up, the bunks are doing all the work and the weight shifting back and forth, in normal driving is enough to test the grip your U bolts have on the trailer cross support.

With a set of keel rollers, your problems will likely go away. If you'd like additional support, to keep the bunks in place, you have several options. The first is a small angular gusset to prevent the bunk from rolling over like shown in your photos.

An easier option is to make the attachment more solid. I always place the U bolt around the attached part, not the trailer. In this case, you'd use two U bolts, per bunk leg. One over the trailer support, the other under, both having a common, drilled plate or piece of angle stock that receives the threaded ends of the U bolts. When you tighten down the U bolt nuts, the plate usually distorts sufficiently enough to prevent it moving side to side.

Since you only have two cross supports on your trailer, consider a centerline brace that has additional rollers or if using a keel box, then line the inside of it with HDPE or similar "self lubricating" plastic (like Teflon) so the keel has an easier time in there. Drill the keel box for drainage.

[Konrad]

Agree with Par, and I'll add something else.

You need to get that boat as LOW on the trailer as practical, or you're going to find it a real pain in the backside to launch and retrieve.  You want that boat to be floating as soon as possible when backing in, or you're going to be up to your car doors in water before it floats.

K

[Frank Hagan]

Yeah, what Par and Konrad said.  Either use a 2x6 with 2x4 sides running the length of the trailer for the boat to rest on the keel (as mentioned in the plans), or install keel rollers.  Then adjust the bunks.  That will lower the boat.  Here's what I did for my Weekender:

You don't need the wide, funnel like entrance I made ... when the boat is in the water at the ramp, it floats onto the keel support about mid way and the end of the trailer is about a foot below the boat.  I have a couple of more pics of the construction at http://www.frankhagan.com/weekender/trailer.htm

[Andrew_Butchart]

I'm going to try to work on a keel box this weekend.  I've got some pieces that I think I can use as a keel roller about mid-ships so the boat would rest on that and the bow roller and then I'll attach some 2X on the sides of the midships and bow roller to act as a guide.

I don't know that I can lower the bunks any further.  Right now the boat is sitting on the bow roller - the only thing I could possibly do would be to angle the bunks to make them lower at the stern.  The two problems I see with that is that it would give the boat a tendancy to slide off which is good on the ramp, but not on the highway, and it would also have my bow sprit pointing up to the stars.

If I move the boat aft that would defeat the purpose of the bow roller and I'd have to build another frame for it to rest on.

[Frank Hagan]

If you can get it lower, it will help.  It does look like you have a long tongue on your trailer, which helps.  The danger, especially with a tow vehicle with a small engine, is that you'll have to get the rear wheels into the water too deep to get the trailer deep enough at the ramp.  It can then be hard to pull everything out of the water.  That's how you get those pictures of people's cars in the water at the boat ramp.

If you have a boat launch near you, you might take the boat and trailer for a test run.  Do it on a weekday, near dusk, so the ramp won't be busy.  Take someone with you and try backing the boat and trailer into the water.  Pay attention as you back down the ramp to how your engine is doing.  Before you get the trailer wheels into the water, and as early as when both boat and trailer are on the ramp, stop and drive forward again.  The resistance the car has to overcome will be more than this "dry test", so if your car is really struggling, you might have to rethink the process.  If you can pull forward easily, then back into the water until the water is a foot or two from your car's rear wheels.  Hopefully, the trailer tires will be almost under water.  See how close you are to having the boat float off the trailer ... you'll be able to judge what another foot or two of descent will do.  Then pull the trailer back up the ramp.

If you had a 4.0 liter V6, you'd have no worries.  I don't know about a 1.5 or 1.6L engine and steep boat ramps, but it will probably work out.  The other issue is the amount of ground clearance you have; if you have to back into the water far enough that your exhaust is under water, make sure you don't turn your engine off ... its better not to be that far into the water, anyway, but with the engine running you at least don't get water up into the muffler.  The good thing is the Weekender is very easy to launch; it only weighs about 600 pounds and it floats off the trailer easily, so if you have enough tongue length, and the car is strong enough to pull it out of the water, you'll be fine.

A tongue extension may also work if you can't back down the ramp far enough.

[Andrew_Butchart]

Frank:

Thanks for the advice.  That picture is my nightmare - not so much because of the obvious problem, but the guaranteed crowd of people that would gather to helpfully explain to me how stupid they thought I was.

I checked yesterday and the bunks can't be lowered.  Right now the mid-ships frame is 2" away from the bottom of the keel.  On a positive note, it makes it easy to install a roller there.  I think because of the distortion of the tiny car beside the boat, it might seem higher up than it really is.  I just measured it and the bottom of the hull is 28" above the ground.  One of the reasons I went with a "V" bottomed trailer in fact was so that the boat could be as low as possible.  Also my bowsprit is about 2 feet longer than spec so that might cause confusion as well.

Using the picture I posted, I made some "guestimates" of how far I'd have to back in.

On a 6 degree ramp, the rear wheels would be in about 3" of water with the bunks covered.  If I were to try to put the entire boat in the water, Konrad is right and the water would be about 6" up on the doors.

On a 10 degree ramp (which looks pretty steep), the entire tongue of the trailer is between me and the water when the bunks are awash and my muffler would just be starting to bubble in the water if I put the whole boat in (although the cockpit would be underwater if I forgot to unstrap the boat).

My driveway has a slope of probably a bit more than 6 degrees and the car pulls the boat up it with no problem - barely even notices it.

Fortunately I don't think it would be necessary to immerse more than the bunks to load and unload and in a pinch I could probably wet even less than that.  My bow eye is extremely solid (throughbolted) and I remember how slippery a hull can get when wet.

I was at the car dealer today putting 4 new tires (traction to get moving) and new front brake rotors (traction to stop) on the car so I think that part is as prepared as possible.

I also think I've got figured out how I'll install some guides - right now I'm figuring on bolting a 2X4 to the roller frames on each side of the keel from mid-ships to the bow sitting just above the rollers.  Having it farther back makes no sense to me as that part of the boat will be well above any guides when launching/retrieving.  With the V bottom on the trailer, bolting directly to the frame wouldn't work the best and would interfere with the rollers.

[PAR]

Rollers help launch and recover a boat better then keel boxes, plus they don't trap moisture against the bottom of a deadwood assembly either.

Federal state parks have ramps built at a 6 degree angle, as do any others built to federal guide lines. Most state parks build to federal guides, but some may take this ramp angle to 8 degrees. Most fall between 6 and 8, though some older ramps, particularly if privately built (funded) can be in the 10 degree range. These can make launching more difficult.

You're going to be fine Andrew. The rear of the trailer bunks, at an average ramp will need to be about 8" under water, maybe a little more to make the boat float completely free. This will let the stern of your boat immerse about a foot, before it starts to lift and teeter totter on (the keel) the forward rollers or keel box (another reason to not like the keel box). Your fender tops will be submerged, depending on clearance from 1" to 4".

Back your trailer in until the fender tops are a few inches under and this will be very close to where it'll need to be.

Come launch day, back the boat in until this point, then check the rear view mirror to see if the stem (not the sprit) is bobbing. If the stem seems fairly solid, then back up a foot. Most of the time I don't even bother looking at the back of the boat, except to see if it floats, at which point I slow down dramatically and continue backing down, with my eyes fixed on the stem. Once the stem bobs, she's free and you hit the brakes to stop and she'll just keep on gliding aft from the momentum. It's wise to have a painter handy or a helper holding the painter.

I often launch by myself, so you don't need a helper, just some practice. By the end of summer, you'll be an old pro.

[Andrew_Butchart]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Paul - it helps quite a bit.

I'm going to work on the mid-ships keel roller today and attach a 2X4 to each side to act as guides.  No bottom though so it won't be a "box".

I'm really feeling the itch to launch and am going through my list of "that can wait" items.

[Konrad]

x2 on Frank:  Definitely choose a time and day when it's deserted.

And if you find you have to back in too far, making a tongue extension for the trailer is a MUCH easier solution than modifying the trailer.

[Andrew_Butchart]

Well - I lifted the boat off the trailer on Sunday and installed a second keel roller and keel guide.  Since the vertical supports are angle iron, I covered everything with some outdoor carpet.  The boat slid back on OK although now the bow is about 1/2" up from the bow roller.

I also took the time to move the axle forward about 3" reducing my tongue weight from 140 to 120lbs.

The sails are in progress and I'm hoping to get the taffrail on today...

[Konrad]

I think your time invested in that keel roller will pay for itself over the years.

Before I ever built my Vacay 10 yrs ago, there was another guy here that had a Weekender on a trailer similar to your original set up.

And you could definitely see that the undersides of the hull were deflecting from carrying all of the weight. 

And it was more than just a little deflection.

[PAR]

Andrew, when you roll the trailer back under the boat, lower the boat until all the weight is on the keel rollers. Use some props at the rub rails to keep her from flopping over, then lift up the bunks to meet the bottom fairly gently. As everyone has mentioned, the bunks just keep the boat from rolling off the trailer during mud bogs and other off roading adventures, unless of course you drive like my other half, in which case just managing a corner in a parking lot will test the need for trailer bunks

[Andrew_Butchart]

Unfortunately these bunks aren't (very) adjustable - to adjust them, I have to lift the boat off and add/subtract lumber to the height.  This is a 2 person operation even with my teenager's muscles involved.

I think that for now I'll just put a shim piece between the bow roller and the keel - it's only about 1/2" - and that will take the weight off of the bunks.

[Andrew_Butchart]

Well - I'm a better engineer than I thought...

I went out (I'm on my 2nd last day of vacation) to fiddle with the trailer, thinking of lowering the bunks, raising the bow roller etc.  As I was working trying to decide what step to take, I discovered that the mid-ships roller was installed just forward of the centre of balance of the unloaded (without mast as well) boat.  When I pulled the bow down, the hull lifted off the bunks and is sitting parallel to and just almost touching them - the perfect scenario.

After all that angst, it turns out I did it right in the first place. 8)

Now if only I could get over my angst about launching which is keeping me from finishing off the last half dozen or so pre-launch jobs.

[PAR]

Launch with a paddle or a little electric trolling motor. Paddle or motor into deep and distant water. Distant enough to permit a multitude of errors to be committed, pondered then solved before running (drifting) aground, into other boats or rocky lee shores.

Motor or paddle your boat until the bow is dead into the wind, then hoist your mainsail. It'll flog around a little bit during the hoist, but you'll get the hang of it pretty quick. Leave the sheets loose all the while raising the main (ditto the jib when it's time for it) and make sure they can't snag on anything if they want to run out. With the main up, she's going to want to sail, so pick a tack (the boat usually does this for you, when you're a novice) and let the helm fall off to a beam reach.

She'll be in a happy place, you'll have this goofy looking grin (a real good time to have a portrait taken, trust me, it'll be the best picture of you in years). Now get a feel for the puppy under mainsail alone. Since it's a Weekender, you might not be able to tack without the jib and lacking experience, but give it a try. So what, you screwed up a tack or two or four, get over it, everyone has.

Pick a day in the middle of the week with winds less then 10 knots. It's less embarrassing this way and also there's fewer boats to bump into when you screw up again (you will, get over this too). Try the helm, work the sheets. Man you're sailing dude. Your confidence will build quickly and that jib will be calling your name. Bring her up into the wind, just like you did on the mainsail and hoist the triangular hanky.

If you're really screwed, can't figure out what you've done wrong and it feels like the boat is going to re-baptize you in the drink, just release the sheets and let the sails fly free. The boat will pop right back to her feet and probably laugh at you for being a weenie. It does help to take someone along that has a clue about sailing, maybe even actually owns a sailboat themselves. If not, trial by fire is a good educator. The worst that can happen is you'll sink and die so no worries. You have life insurance don't you . . .

[Andrew_Butchart]

You have life insurance don't you . . .

My wife often remarks how much better off she'd be financially if I wasn't here.  Fortunately for me, she's also the one that's insisting on excess floatation in the boat too.

I'm not "quite" a novice having been sailing since 2002 although I didn't get out at all last year.  I had my MiniCup for a few years but found it to be to agile of a boat for my agility.  I've been sailing a canoe for the last couple of years (CSD pirogue) and am really looking forward to the Weekender.  This will be the biggest boat for me so far, and one that I can't just drag across the beach and into the water.

[Frank Hagan]

You have life insurance don't you . . .

My wife often remarks how much better off she'd be financially if I wasn't here.  Fortunately for me, she's also the one that's insisting on excess floatation in the boat too.

I'm not "quite" a novice having been sailing since 2002 although I didn't get out at all last year.  I had my MiniCup for a few years but found it to be to agile of a boat for my agility.  I've been sailing a canoe for the last couple of years (CSD pirogue) and am really looking forward to the Weekender.  This will be the biggest boat for me so far, and one that I can't just drag across the beach and into the water.

You're ahead of where I was ... I had never sailed a boat before, and had never even been in a small sail boat.  But the Weekender is a good school mistress, even for those of us without any experience.  With sailing experience you'll be surprised at how easy it is to sail the Weekender.  Its remarkably stable when you are in the cockpit (I'm a big fan of running all the lines to the cockpit ... I arranged the halyards on the right side of the cabin top and the jib halyard on the left.)  Getting up on the foredeck to handle the jib takes some care; you should keep to the centerline as much as possible.

I don't do any rigging on the water.  I raise the mast and hank on the jib prior to backing her in,  and then its very easy to launch and get going.  I'll second the idea that you should have a paddle or electric outboard as auxiliary power to your gas outboard (finicky things). 

I had nightmares about backing the boat into the water and not having it float, going down with the trailer. 

[Konrad]

One of the BEST things you can take on your first outing is someone else with experience.

If you don't have that, just close your eyes and hope for the best.

Just kidding.

The boat is a charm, go out and back it in.

In another month, you'll be amused when you look back at your own hesitation about it.

At least that's how it was for me.

One thing to caution you about, though..

Sometimes the real trouble begins when you've had it out several times, and your confidence level is higher.

That's when a person is more apt o overlook something and get themselves in a pinch.

[PAR]

Over confidence is the precursor to most screw ups.