Modifications to plans

[BillBrush]

Ok first a confession.  My name is Bill and I am a compulsive and unrepentant tinkerer.

Assuming I build a Weekender there are a number of modifications that I am contemplating.  The knowledge and skill available on this board is impressive (on the BYYB boards too, but for some reason I can't login over there  ??? ) so I'm going to throw stuff out and hope I don't get told "Go back to the Snarks ya lunatic."

Ok, one of the things I like about the Weekender is the bow.  As Greg Lucket said in another thread, new builders love the bowsprit, and it is a nice feature, but for me it's the clipper bow.  I do feel like it should be blended into the sides more, so that's my first thought for modification.  Would it change some arcane hydrodynamic feature if I blended the sides into the keel at the bow with a large fillet?  With my amateur knowledge of aerodynamics that should simply smooth the flow a bit reducing drag.

I had been thinking of continuing the fillet all the way along the keel until I read Paul Ricelli's treatise on converting the Weekender into a v-hull and I realize that would be approximately what I was doing, so I ditched that idea.

I read on the Stevenson Projects page that the original design had a removable cabin, and I think this would be a valuable feature for my needs, which may include taking on not only my family (2 adults, 2 kids) but possibly my sister's family (2 adults, 1 kid) which will be downright cramped with the existing design.  As I kick the idea around I'm vacillating between a fully removable cabin, or just make the roof removable. 

Can the forward bulkhead of the cabin be opened up somewhat to allow a small person access to the area under the foredeck?  The existing cutouts don't look that big, but I could see it being useful to be able to send the kid up there.

Along the lines of enlarging the passenger area a bit I understand that conversion to a tiller steerage and eliminating the housing for the wheel storage is a common way to pick up some space.  How much space are we talking for this?

Everything I've suggested so far is fairly minor, so let me throw out what I would consider a fairly major change, namely would it be feasible to lengthen the boat by a small amount without totally throwing everything out of whack?

My reading on rig conversion leads me to suppose the answer to be know, but has anyone converted a Weekender to a sloop rig? Is there any advantage to doing so?

The cutter rig looks interesting, but it sounds like the dual headsail doesn't really add much for capabilities.  How practical would it be to simply add the topsail rig with a single headsail?

Not exactly a modification, but can a Weekender be handled without an auxiliary motor, or with just an electric?

Has anyone added a gun deck to a Weekender?    Maybe a bow turret?

Bill

[Charlie Jones]

I'd say all you mention is doable ( except perhaps the gun deck )

But if you want to tote that load, and are talking about lengthening, why not go to the boat that's already lengthened- the Vacationer? Pretty much the same boat, just a bit larger.

Oh- and the boat is ALREADY a sloop rig- a gaff sloop. Adding the topsail wouldn't be that hard- wouldn't do a whole lot of good- not a lot of area, but it would work. Double headsails on a Weekender would be a PITA.

[Craig]

Bill log in to BYYB as Bill Brush and I'll fix you up. 

[BillBrush]

Bill log in to BYYB as Bill Brush and I'll fix you up. 

Craig, sent you a PM on these forums explaining my error messages.

Thanks for any and all help.

Bill

[Barry Pyeatt]

Welcome to the madness and the potential to become totally hooked on wooden boat building. First thing to get is a good comfortable "moaning" chair.  It will be come an absolute necessity for your sanity as you move forward.

Re: Thinking out modifications.

Something for you to seriously think about.

No, it isn't the perfect boat, but then there isn't a perfect boat anywhere for everyone.  No, it doesn't perform as well as say the B&B Coresounds or many other designs.  But how would you know?

Can it be inproved upon? Sure! 

For some of the "hell bent to modify" novice builders that have no background or experience with sailing, I would suggest this line of thought.  (Which could be disagreed upon by a few "more experienced"  thinkers, tinkers and would-be experts.)

There have been a lot of these boats built, particularly the Weekender.  Nearly all by first time boat builders and most of them by novices to sailing.  Some were excuse the phrase, "thrown together" as quickly as possible and just painted over the bare wood.  They were rigged without paying attention to basics or to even basic materials and fittings.  Some worked OK, some didn't, some were total duds and were left to rot under a newly formed hedge of weeds after the first season.  Some of those builders were totally dismayed with the effort, some not so much.  Some estatic about what a joy this little boat can be to learn to get some basic building and sailing experience.   

Most of them didn't mess with the basic hull design, because they didn't have a clue of what to do in the first place.  Most of this catagory of builders also used the least costly materials they could find and the end product still worked.

Most of this group will never build anything else in the way of a boat and found out that sailing wasn't for them or they had problems and no knowledgable person to help them thru building or learning to rig, tune the rigging and to learn basic sailing techniques.

At the other extreme is the semi astute builder that at least has had some background with power tools, understands or is willing to learn about appropriate building materials and to ask questions before they have to do it over again.  Perhaps they have at least been out on a sailboat in the past or has some on the water experience with powered craft.  Know just enough about the basics to understand that the learning curve can be steep and quick or long and drawn out.  They openly communicate with others, such as on this forum.  They realize that the builders that contribute here come from all over the world, have very diverse geographic areas and conditions to sail in and that wood and other materials are going to be geographic as well.   That the "Big Box" stores do not have what you need or really even want.  Why? because they cater to the home remodeler and small contractor.  Not to those interested in building a boat with quality materials suitable for the project. 

The vast majority of the boat builders somehow manage over some period of time to get their projects finished and in the water.  Most of them are for the most part just as designed but not necessarily finished as designed.  They learn very quickly that the Weekender, Vacationer and PC are not only fun, they have some rather interesting characteristics. 

As designed, they are underpowered, INTENTIONALLY!  That also helps to keep the novice reasonably safe on those initial "discovery" outings.  They were designed to be built from commonly available materials at a time when Marine plywood was a lot more affordable and you could get good quality plywood and lumber at the local lumber yard at reasonable prices.  You could find most of what you needed to finish and rig one of them at any Ace Hardware store or its equivalent.  That has changed somewhat and prices have gotten to be a lot higher and some maintain that unless you have name brand gear you can't have a good boat.  Believe me that is a total line of _ _ _ _!

The Gaff rigged Sloop design keeps the center of effort lower than other rigs and is easily managed for a novice.  The clubfooted jib is a joy to help learn by and to enjoy learning to sail. Not a novice concession.  It works well.

The Weekender is the least solid feeling of the three when you try to move about on the boat.  Not much bottom area there nor is there much bulk or weight in this boat.  So it is "tender" to a novice.  The Vacationer and the PC have broader bottoms and hence are flatter sailing boats.  But as designed, you can go sailing in a Weekender if there is barely enough wind to make a match flicker or barely cause little ripples on the surface.  Others will be sitting waiting for a stronger breeze to come up.  When it gets moderatly heavy wind conditions, learn to reef down the mainsail and you will have all the stability you need to handle the conditions  and bring it home without a lot of worries.

You can make a very suitable set  of sails from white poly tarps and good two sided carpet tape or white duct tape.  A Grommet install kit and some hardware store braided rope for lines.  Glass it with Vinyester or epoxy resin and 4 oz glass cloth, paint it with a good porch and deck single part poly paint and you are ready to go.  Or go for it and finish away to your hearts content.  Just don't take too long or it will loose some of the interest in actually enjoying sailing it.

Make your modifications cosmetic, and for the most part above the decks without weakening the basic hull or changing how it is built and you will have a good handling boat to learn to sail and have a small family enjoy. 

After you have a good solid season or more of learning how the boat handles and how to handle the varying conditions, you will, if you find some knowledgable small boat person that is interested,  learn how to fine tune the rigging to make it perform better than when you first launched.  You will learn what you need to do when things go wrong and what you need to do to keep it safe and sane.  You will learn how to handle light air and what to do when it gets really heavy quickly. 

After this period of the learning curve flattens out a bit, you will find some minor modifications that you can make that will improve the performance and handling dramatically.  Things that will allow you to make adjustments while undersail that will improve handling and safety.  You will then be able to evaluate what works well for you and what doesn't.

The biggest problem with modifying the design when someone else is the "expert" is that you have to live with what they created, if it doesnt' work, how will you evaluate that?  And most major modifications have handling issues that go with them.  Some positive, some not so, and some are dramatically dangerous.  But how will you know how it was supposed to handle if you have never sailed it as it was designed.  Most of the long time owners have done small things to refine the rigging, change from wheel to tiller, make small modifications to the rigging that they can evaluate under a lot of varying conditions to see if it is better/safer, or better performing/handling.  If not they can easily go back and try something else.  Most of their building modifications are with the realization that if they modify the waterline or hull design they are going into the unkown.  Despite what some "experts" will say about the shortcomings, the bulk of the owners enjoy their boats, how they handle and the safety of them.  The biggest problem I have with "experts" that keep suggesting modifications to the basic design and criticizing the design is that most of them have virtually no basis to go by.  Armchair quarterbacks.   Most of them have no small boat sailing experience and some have never actually built a sailboat or sailed on a well built Stevenson's boat.  But they know everything there is to know about what you should do to change the design before you actually have ever built a boat. Just remember, they are not going to be there to help you, they are not going to pay for it or be there to understand your sailing conditions or how you want to sail with a family or alone  and if it doesn't work well for you, what are you going to be able to do about it?   So, take all of it with a large dose of "REALITY".  This is your project, there are a lot of people that have built them, a few that know how to actually tune a Weekender for optimum performance "as built" and as designed.  Save the big modifications for after you have had a chance to learn how much fun these can be as designed and how to best use them under your conditions in your area and with your level of "seamanship" and expectations. 

Don't be afraid to ask questions, but remember, the opinions come from all over and what is valid in one area may not be practical in another or not at all where you are going to be sailing. 

Oh, small kid access to the forepeak area on a Weekender, not a good idea!  Not that big an area to begin with.  And you may find you want to place a battery or two there in cases if you use an electric trolling motor as an aux.  Fore deck is also not a good place for small kids, keep them in the cockpit and cabin and teach them to be safe on the boat.  Set a good example for them to learn by.  Best seat on the boat is the cabin hatchway seat.  You could place a small hatch at the front of the cabin top, but for changing how it is built.  That would allow the kids to stand up and look out and about.  A lot of the strength of the boat is the way it is stressed plywood that takes advantage of the strength of curved shapes joined together.  Cut out a lot of that and you loose a lot of the safety and overall strength of the structure. If you want a boat with more room, build a Vacationer.  Don't try to lengthen or widen the Weekender.  A couple of builders have, they say they are happy with the results but it is hard to not say you are happy with something you build or modify or that it isn't actually an improvement in handling or performance.   

You will have a lot of fun and there are a lot of people with good experience that are part of this forum.  Lots of them will contribute.  Not so much on some of the other forum(s).  You'll find where you are most comfortable and what is good info and what is not, just remember, It is your project, your budget, your family's safety and no one else is going to be qualified to make the decisions that affect your project as well as you can.  Nor should they. Have fun, ask questions and evaluate for yourself.

[ScottWidmier]

The weekender is a fun little boat but, rather than changing the plans, why not look for another boat that fits what you are looking for.  Unless you just like tinkering for tinkering sake (I can sympathize).

Anyway, I think the 16' CHINCOTEAGUE SKIFF will be my next build.  She looks like the weekender but is beamier and V bottomed for better rough-water (including motorboat chop) sailing.  Has a wonderfull entry into the water that you can just visualize cutting the waves.  She has tiller stearing attached to a great rudder design.  http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/sf/dayboats/other/c-skiff/index.htm