Sailrite?

[Dave R1]

I'm thinking about a new jib for Julie K this year and figure I'd better get started. The sails I have are Paul's Polytarp stuff which works alright but the jib gets some unsightly wrinkles after being rolled up with the roller furler.

I was thinking I'd order a kit from Sailrite but I wanted to know what modifications would be required to set it up for roller furling.

Although their Weekender Jib kit instructions show the installation of a luff wire, it also shows installing the hanks for clipping it onto the forestay. I'm trying to find out if there is anything else I need to do or order to make the sail suitable for roller furling.

I e-mailed Sailrite and after a couple of days finally got a response asking what kind of roller furler I have, I replied to that and haven't heard a word since. Makes me wonder if I'll get an answer and if I'll get my kit in time to make the sail before the water gets soft.

Has anyone dealt with them? Does anyone have first hand experience with one of their kits and especially setting their jib kit up for roller furling?

By the way, I'll keep the forestay so a larger diameter luff wire wouldn't be needed for for strength reasons. Maybe there's nothing additional to do?

[Charlie Jones]

They supplied the sails for the Weekender I built. I also had a working jib on my last boat from them and the jib and main on Tehani are both from them. Excellent quality on EVERYTHING.

My current mainsail was heavily modified from their standard kit and they worked closely with me to get it like I wanted, making suggestions and explaining differences in things.

I'd suggest you call them, and ask for Jeff. Talk to him about what you want to do. I think you'll find them very nice to work with.

As to the Emails- it's a small company and it IS right in the middle of boat show time. Grant himself and part of his crew travel to the shows, so they may have been really busy at the time of your Email.

[Dave R1]

Thanks Charlie, I'll try calling them. I wondered if they would be busy. I thought if they were, it would be nice to let me know in the one brief e-mail I got.

Well, we'll see what they say.

thanks again,

Dave

[Craig]

Jeff, Sailrite is the way to go. Thier Jeff will work with you as long as required to get what you need and want in your kit. He and I talked about the sails for the Saralee and he recommended some modifications ( like loose footing) that really improved the performance of the boat. I deal with Sailrite frequently and have never been dissapointed. Super service always.

[Barry Pyeatt]

Jeff provided me witih a complete materials list for making up the jib, in this case a lapper. He included all the modifications I wanted to make and specifications for all the items along with part numbers where pertinent.

The luff wire is no larger than 1/8" and is coated to help prevent slippage. No grommets are utilized for roller furling as they do not help at all. A strip of foam is sewn into the luff to help capture the luffwire and surrounds it in the overlap. It is easy to do and totally effective.

In my case I had it specified that I would be using a Harken small boat furling system and he specified their systems and the materails to utilize it. IT will be different depending upon how/whos furling system design is being used. But the overall size of the luffwire is still a small diameter. Mine is being mounted behind the fixed forestay as well and the forestay carries the load. The halyard establishes the tension on the luffwire. You will not want grommets sewn into it, believe me. If your complaint is the wrinkles in the polytarp, well, guess what. If you use grommets you will really have wrinkles. You will have some anyway since the sail is shaped, no way to get around it. And no luffwire furling system will eliminate them completely. Especially on a boat that is a trailerable/stepped mast system. The furled jib is removed and stored when trailering anyway.

They are very helpful and will walk you thru the entire process if necessary.

[Dave R1]

Craig, you can call me anything but late for dinner.

Barry, are you saying I should leave out the grommets at the tack and head of the sail?

FWIW, you can see the wrinkles in the jib in this photo. Pretty ugly if nothing else.

[Barry Pyeatt]

Yes, but....

Depends upon your design for furling drum/top swivel attachment. With the commercial luffwire furlers, they simply use the luffwire for attaching via a loop at either end of the wire with a teardrop grommet in the loop. Same with the swivel at the head. A thru pin hold it inplace and the wire has to turn with the drum.

Amazing, sails have always had wrinkles in them, stored in sail bags, etc. or just stuffed into a locker. Get some wind and they tend to fill an smooth right out. But then if the goal is to look smooth and flat when there is no wind, and you are motor sailing. Well, that is something else again.

That keeps it clean and neat and no extra stuff for the sail to have to wrap up and around. Less wrinkles and crimps in the sail itself. Since you will be detaching the entire furling system when you are huling, it is easy to make a sock/sleeve to slip the entire luffwire/spools, swivel and sail into and then just coil it up and toss it in the cabin.

Once you use this system, you will never want to attach with grommets again.

Capt. Jake has a custom spool that he uses and his luffwire extends down thru the interior of the center of the spool and then is attached to the bottom flange of the spool if my memory serves me. He detaches the entire system with just two clips and slips it into a sock to store it.

[Dave R1]

Barry, I think I need some clarification on what you're saying. By "grommets" do you mean hanks? The jib only has three grommets, one at each corner. The polytarp jib I have now has the nylon hanks but last summer, I added a temporary luff wire to use it with the roller furler. I left the hanks in place because I wasn't sure if I wanted to eliminate them.

As far as the wrinkles running parallel to the luff, on the polytarp jib, they wouldn't shake out even in a strong breeze. I'm not so worried about wrinkles in a dacron sail because they aren't so obvious.

The Sailrite instructions show installing hanks after the luff wire. Are you suggesting I skip the hanks altogether?

By the way, to make sure we have the proper terminology here, These are what I'm calling hanks:

And these are what I'm calling grommets:

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/sailmaking/grommets/CHG_B&N_2&4-big.jpg

[Barry Pyeatt]

We're on the same page!

A grommet is the round brass thingie in the corners, hanks are the things that attach the luff to the forestay which isn't used on a luff wire furling system by the jib at all. 8)

Yes, avoid adding grommets to the head and tack, you will attach the drum and swivel to the luff wire, not the sail itself although they won't hurt except to weaken those corners a bit. You don't need to worry about the luff pulling up on the wire if made to their specs. It is sewn inplace and isn't going anywhere and the friction of the foam against the coated luffwire is a strong point. The halyard applys the tension to the luffwire and it carrys the load. No bolt rope needed as with a "hanked"sail. The hanks will be in the way of the furling and do nothing to attach the sail to the luff wire except get in the way and complicate things.

And as a result the luff will wrap evenly and cleanly around the wire and give you a smoother wrap provided all other things are working well.

[Dave R1]

Foam? What foam? I didn't see anything in the instructions from Sailrite about foam.

I knew the hanks wouldn't be used but the grommets at the tack and head appear to be used for the stitching used to hold the luff wire in place. Did you just stitch through the fabric instead?

[Craig]

Sorry Dave, I lost my place.

[Barry Pyeatt]

The instructions for use with the furling system I'm using, (Harken). They would/could be different for different furling systems. Since the systems I've used are all luffwire furling systems with a fixed headstay, they recommended the use of a strip of thin foam to be sewn into the luff around the full length of the coated luffwire. This helps to maintain an even pressure and tension on the luffwire underload and allows for uneven stitching along the length of the seam against the luffwire. It also gives a little better shape to the leading edge of the sail and better airflow according to what I've read.

In use, the sails perform great. The furling systems work well and have only needed one change in rigging to use them. On a couple boats, the top swivel has had to be secured to keep the halyard from twisting due to the length of the exposed line. So a top swivel with a stiff wire bracket/guide like the (RWO 2081 swivel) that slips up the forestay is utilized. http://rwo-usa.com/products/furling_a.html

This keeps the top swivel from twisting the halyard line and allows the spool to roll up the sail evenly on the luff wire. Havn't seen where this would be needed on a Weekender, but it might be with the longer mast and hence longer forestay relationship.