Back at it - Laying the fiberglass

[merrimange]

Sorry for longer post - I have read many posts before this in an attempt to answer, but would appreciate any feedback. I have my boat turned over and have placed the initial fiberglass cloth and rolled the inexpensive boat resin from West Marine. I give myself a B- to C+, but compared to the "grand piano" folks maybe a C- to D. I have come to the realization, that given my lack of construction experience balanced with my desire to get in the water, it is not going to be perfect. Again, this is my absolute first time tackling anything like this. I lightly sanded last night cut out the airbubbles, most were under a quarter in size, and am ready to put on some more resin coats. This seems to be tedious, but I think I'm doing it right. Or, could I as I've thought about simply tacking a pin or tack and poking multiple holes in the small bubbles, sanding, releasing the air and recoating with resin. There are some places in the corners of the hull/keel that show attached cloth sticking up but no air bubbles. Is this normal, and should I keep sanding down? Should I just keep adding resin in the cut out places or patch with cloth? From previous posts, it seems like 3 to 4 coats of resin should take care and make it 5 ft presentable. Will the final thin layer of bondo on top take care of most glitches? I'm using 100 grain sand paper at this stage, too much too little?, I just don't have a feel for in terms of if I'm causing harm on, so help if you can. Thanks in advance.

[JEM]

I'll try and take a stab at helping.

First, what plans are you building? That sometimes helps give some tips.

You mentioned "cheap resin" so I'm guessing it's polyester. I have not worked extensively with that but here's some input with using epoxy (I'm guessing some of the info translates to poly).

I get most of my air bubble problems when I work in the sun. The direct exposure causes the resin to react at an excellerated, inconsistent rate. Because of that, I do everything indoors or in the shade. I also go back after about 10-15 minutes of cure and pop bubbles formed in the resin as you mentioned.

Now I'm guessing your issue is with air getting under the cloth. Sun can also cuase that, dirt or grease on the wood surface could cause that, and sometimes the fiberglass just does not want to behave. I sometimes have to poke or mash some areas with the tip of the brush I use to apply the resin. I also use a foam roller and do the same thing: just press a little harder to drive the air out.

They also make grooved plastic and aluminum rollers to help burp the air and force the cloth down into the resin.

Best thing to do is be vigilant and try to work out those pockets before it cures.

[merrimange]

Thanks JEM. It is the weekender. I'm 7 months pregnant w/ some of the bubbles. On the deck and cabin, I'm gonna do exactly as you said. I did do it inside, but frankly just didn't know what to look for until after the fact; otherwise, I'd have "popped" the bubbles before curing etc. So what I'm left with is say 5 to 7 areas where I took a razor and cut out the bubbles. With that said, should I overlay cloth patches then layer resin or just not worry about and build up w/ Resin and sand on. Thanks again.

[Barry Pyeatt]

Good questions. I know that working with resin can be a frustrating experience for a first time user. I had the benefit of some professionals who did this for a living to help me the first time and still had some raised areas that required work.

Unfortunately, anywhere the glass/resin hasn't adhered is a potential location for moisture to collect. Not from outside the boat, but from within the wood itself. If the wood is uncovered, and unfinished, any moisture changes are wicked away and elmininated by normal air movement and evaporation. Now we are trying to protect the surface and (of course), all the underlying wood too. The bubbles, if not removed, will form pockets of moisture that can't evaporate. End result is eventually rot which can be come pretty wide spread and difficult to remove/repair if not discovered early on.

So....it is highly recommended that all these little pockets/bubbles/raised portions of glass be cut out. Just use a sharp utility knife and remove them completely. Cut a small patch to cover the area and apply resin first to the area. Then when it has just begun to kick off apply the patch and wet it out. The glass with the new resin will bond to the lower levels of glass and resin and become a solid barrier. Of course now it has a raised area surrounding the hole where there are multiple layers and it is uneven.

That can be feathered out with a long board and more tenacious grit paper, or a quick touch with a belt sander over the top.

I would use more agressive sanding belts than 100 grit however. Most likely abouty 60 grit for this spot feathering. Just to take off the extra layer and bring it back to roughly flush with the surrounding surface.

Then apply the additional layer of resin after wiping the entire surface down with warm soapy water and a clear rinse wipe down after that to remove any dust/debris and blush.

I wouldn't get too carried away with multiple coats of resin once the glass is coated and bonded to the surface. I would instead knock off any high spots with a long board or an easy touch with the belt sander or ROS and not get carried away with trying to make the entier surface smooth and even. Just take away the high spots and built up resin where it is most obvious.

Then apply the filler coat of fairing putty with long even strokes of a wide blade applying even pressure and not working it too much. If there are overlap ridges, leave them alone. They will come right off with the sanding.

Next step is to even out the surface with a long board or ROS. Then it is ready to paint.

Oil based primer, built up with two or three coats or more, drying completely before recoating. Sand only after the top coat and then paint.

I wouldn't use a high gloss paint either as high gloss finishes show off all the minor imperfections. A semi-gloss or satin finish will hide a multitude of small imperfections and from a few feet away lood fabulous.

It has been said, that this isn't fine furniture. It is a boat, built to be used and enjoyed. It will get knocked around and dings, dents and scratches are part of the process of learning/enjoying the boat. If you achieve too high a level of finish, you will worry about every little thing that may happen and not explore the possibilities of these great little projects.

I think my favorite sequence in the Stevenson's video is with Mike bringing the Weekender into the dock and "stopping by impact". Too fine a finish and you would be stopping a few feet off and paddling or tossing a line and asking them to pull you in easy.

Bit long, but I hope it helps. Not quick and easy, but worth the time it takes to correct it now before it causes maintenance issues that can be avoided.

Have fun, it is part of building and finishing a wooden boat. :wink:

[merrimange]

Barry - thank you very much. That makes sense. By fairing putty, you mean the "bondo" or is that something unique? By the way, what color would be best to "cover" - say a cream or white satin? I was thinking of a royal to light nave blue - being from Nashville w/ a "Titan" sort of look.

[Barry Pyeatt]

Did I read that you are 7 months pregnant and working with resin on your boat? My goodness!

If it is polyester resin, then Bondo will be the fairing putty of choice. If it is Vinylester resin, I would go for a Vinylester resin based fairing putty. Microlite or something similar.

If epoxy, then Bondo will work OK but Epoxy with microballons added is better. Use a plastic resin spreader with the epoxy or a really clean metal drywall taping knife with Bondo or Microlite.

A word about finishes. Boat white is prevalent for a number of reasons, primarily because it stays cooler in the hot sun and doesn't show imperfections as well as darker colors. The higher the gloss level and the darker the color the more waviness, ripples, uneven places and small dings, scratches and opps will show up in the finished or repaired surface.

Row boats are often painted with flat, darker finishes because it won't show the dirt, damage quite as quickly as a white finish would. They get banged about and abused and still look like row boats. Damage, sand it down a bit to remove the surface finish and owwie and slap a patch of paint over it. It still looks like a row boat.

Appologies to all that have some mighty fine examples of building/craftsmanship and finishing in rowing craft. I'm talking down and dirty work boat finishes here. :roll:

You will probably want something higher quality than that, but not as fine as a high gloss display finish.

Personally, an off white to light buff, beige, tan color with a little bit of accent will be a striking combination. Keep it simple. Don't get carried away with stripes or lots of different colors. If you like naturally finished wood, maybe an oil finish or satin finish varnish rub rails or wood accents for the portlights.

Darker color hull below the lower rub rail and light color above that makes a great statement. I would just avoid a high gloss finish, at most semi-gloss for the trim work and satin or semi-gloss for the hull. Nothing wrong with using good quality house paint. If you want a higher level of hardness/wearability, a one part polyurethane deck and porch paint will make quite a difference, but most of them are high gloss. Just look around because there are some good quality semi-gloss deck and porch polyurethanes available.

[Guest]

7 months pregnant

STOP RIGHT NOW!!! :shock:

[merrimange]

I just mean't I feel so bubbly 7 months pregnant. He He.

[merrimange]

I have watched the video again and again as well as the instructions - I can't seem to get a sense for the proper shaping to either round the keel at the bottom edge or other. What are the best practices here?

I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnell here and it is perhaps not a train.

[Craig]

Many of us have used a 1/2" roundover bit in a router for shaping the edges of the keel. This can also be done with a surform plane or just an power sander. The intent is to break the sharp edge to prevent splintering and a smoother entry and flow through the water. This is not a critical step so what ever looks good to you is what it needs to look like.

[merrimange]

Thanks Craig. I subsequently did and search on Keel AND shape and found a topic which indicates roundness between 3/4 and what you indicated discussion. I'll not overanalyze any further. It seems that for first timers there is a void on these "little things" occasionally in the plans.

[Barry Pyeatt]

I would just keep it in mind that the boat is going to be setting on the keel most of the time. Sharp entries don't work in water as well as a rounded shape. They also don't hold up as well to abuse as you move it on and off the trailer, etc. So just rounding over the edges is a good plan. If you wanted to add a protective strip along the bottom edge it could also be a good plan. Just remember that the bottom edge will take a lot of banging around and it will get dinged, scraped and chipped. Glassing that edge really isn't worth the effort as it most often results in rot pockets forming beneath the glass. :shock:

[Craig]

It is real easy to over do a lot of building these things. The learning curve is not steep but is very time comsuming. Happy Building..

[merrimange]

Okay - little help here. The surface was not as smooth and without errors as I would have liked. Should I sand down considerably through the primer in places or is it best to add some bondo and smooth at this point. Probably 10 to 15 ft good without the final paint now - Thanks in advance. I now know what I should do on the cabin and deck, but making up for past mistakes.

[Mike Henderson (Oregon)]

I remember something I read about bringing up the low spots to the BBL (Beautiful Boat Level).....so, if thats the rule, add a little filler.

Just me talkin'....but BONDO kicks off way to fast for my liking...I feel like i'd end up with a rock hard blob. I know you've got to knock it down while it's still chezzy but it just scares me more than filled epoxy. I really like micro balloons and epoxy. very sandable, easy and slow.

I don't know if you can put Bondo on primer though. If the imperfections are small enough...maybe a filler type of primer would do?...then sand.

Good luck!