Tops'l Ideas

[Tim Diebert]

Craig created these great drawings. I just made them a bit smaller and posted them to the web. I am sure somebody other than myself will have interest in this project.

http://www.timtone.com/tt/ttphotos/PhotosSailingTopsail.htm

We started this conversation on another thread that was about swim ladders

I thought this topic might warrent it's own thread.....and also makes it easier to find the info later on.

I have some ideas of my own, but I want to study Craig's ideas for a while first before I comment.

[Guest]

Sorry Craig, I just received your mail. Sometimes my mail gets hung up in our country- fied server here. Thanks Tim and I will look at it, with what limited knowldege I have in some the unconventional riggings,

[Craig]

Thanks Tim. I should have read the how to post photos first. This will get us started. I have an idea for brailing lines to furl the sail without dousing it. This is going to be a chafe problem all the way around so the lower sail luff and leech will need leather edges. Thats not a big deal to do but it does add cost.

[Craig]

Here is the prototype topmast and the mounting whatevers. The third photo is a dog exerciser. They ignore the birds but the 50 million squirrels that come drive them nuts. We go through two dog door replacements a year because they wear out the flaps! It

[John B]

One of the reasons that I like to lurk around this forum is the way you guys love to think about ways of doing things and the innovation that comes with it.

I

[John B]

Here's one anyway. hope the pic works...The halyard goes from halfway up the yard, through a sheave( or block) down to mast padeye, to yard padeye, to deck/cleat/winch. It's a pearler of an idea.As I said... works like a dream.

[Guest]

JOhn, thank you for chiming in . You imput is greatly appreciated. We only sail the small rigs, as I will be using on my new boat in the future, that I am building new, now, from one of our real old style sharpies. If you are not aware of the prject, then check out the link titled "Waste no Time" on the main board here.

[Tim Diebert]

I just re-read a chapter in my favorite book written by a man who has put over 68,000 miles on a 16 foot gaff rigged boat. He speaks of his topsail.

His is super easy and has proven itself over many years of use.

(I like the super easy part)

He has the sail permanently lashed to the topsail spar or yard (as told by John ....and stows it easily within the boat when not in use.

The foot of the TS is just attached at the tack and clew to the gaff. He does not elaborate....but I envision myself using two simple spring clips to a coupla stainless pad eyes. Some images I have seen in the past show the tack and clew lashed at the ends...to the gaff.

The only line is the halyard...which is also the sheet. He says it is really simple to dump the halyard if you get a hard puff...it falls right over.

I would still need the mast extension thing to get a good angle from the halyard/sheet block. Easy stuff. Not a huge big deal to work on now rather than over the off season.

[Mike Pennington]

Craig,

How long is the Yard, as per John, it looks long? But hey I'm game, I've been out on to many light wind days.

[Craig]

Mike the yard is in the area of 10' on this drawing. It will end up being more or less in the final version and each boat will need to accommodate the existing rigging. Most of you didn't use cranes so you might be able to use a fid. On my boat the topmast must stay up until the mainmast is dropped. It has to be removable or I will bust the length limits of the DOT.

John B, Thank you for the help. Please stay with us. I am very concerned about the general loss of basic knknowledge today. No one knows how to fix or make anything really. One of the popular answers to everything is to hire a contractor and build a website. (Sorry website builders.) As you say the level of practical engineering within this group is awesome. I see how your halyard works, slick. Are you using a topmast or an extended main? From the photo it appears the the entire movement is the distance from the padeye to the halyard connection. Is your boat in the water or permanently or trailer sailed? Again in the area of terms, what is the boom you refer to? The gaff? How do you handle bundling the sail when not in use? How big is the sail? Our boats are small and there, except for Konrads boat, is no way to climb the mast to furl by hand. You are right of course on needing a positive downhaul John. You can see by the heft of the parts I make and my obsession with lines running is an orderly fashion that I am part German. When I finally finished the boat my wife came out, looked it over and said " What? No cement?"

Tim, the idea of having the tops'l attached to the gaff semi-permanently is very interesting. That was my first thrust. I see issues with storage there. How do you control the loose sail from ballooning the breeze? Hinging at the outer end of the gaff forks with just a halyard is very simple; however, a brailing line controlled from the deck and the halyard are now loose lines when lowering the main. Do you have a drawing Tim? I would love to see how this works. Loose lines and where thisng go are not trivial issues on boats this small. Everything is easy at 150 ft of length. It is just that the trailer anoyes the ladies from homeowners association.

[Guest]

Craig, John's boat is a large boat. I will make an attempt show by photo, the topsail up to the mast without the mainsail in its way. The closeup of John's is a little close for me to really understand his arrangment. But it may not apply in a 16 to 20 foot boat.

[Tim Diebert]

For some reason Imagestaion does not allow the 'borrowing' of images. So I have stolen one instead and posted it to my own server.

This way we should all be able to see John B's boat.

Bow down low boys....really low.

Behold....Waione.

[Tim Diebert]

Craig.

The sail is permanently attached to the yard or spar. Not the gaff. The clew and tack are attached to the gaff( tack at the throat clew at the head)

One line to haul and tension the spar.

This would add only one line to the array and would be easily secured when not in use.

When the topsail is not in use, it is rolled up on the little yard and stowed below somewhere.

I will do a drawing sometime today.

Oh, and I forgot to thank you for the compliments on my web site and my work. Thanks.

[Tim Diebert]

8) I ripped off Craigs work and altered it to represent the idea I had for comparison.

The page these are all at is here:

http://www.timtone.com/tt/ttphotos/PhotosSailingTopsail.htm

[Tim Diebert]

I love the gaff rig and have enjoyed the heck out of having converted my boat.

Whilst looking through your album I noticed that Waione was once Marconi rigged and was going to ask you if you did the conversion. Huge job I recon eh?

I had sailed only pointy heads for all my wee life until I got this little toy gaffer boat. At first I had thought to re-rig for better windward sailing....but some reading, research and sailing has converted me to a Gafferlad. It is so much more effective on all points of sail other than the single close hauled point of sail. In the end, I feel much better off this way.

The heeling energy is quite different as well.

I am curious, how much did Waione change...balance-wise....once you made the change? Was it more stiff with the gaff rig?

Your expertise on this board is welcome and appreciated.

[RussMartin]

Probably everyone's seen it, but I might as well throw this one into the mix:

http://groups.msn.com/SandbarsandDriftwood/topsail.msnw

[Craig]

Thaks Russ. I have seen another version where the gaff is faux and the main actuallu continues on diagonally tot the mast top. IN that version the sail cloth weight is the same all the way up and the upper part sstays up all the time. Thanks for sharing this. It seems similar to Toms version and eliminates the need for a top mast.

[Tim Diebert]

Some more great ideas, thanks.

My original plan was to try and do this without a mast extension. But I feel I wont get enough sail up there if there is not an extension. If I am going to go to the trouble of adding some sail, I want enought that it is going to make a difference.

Here is an image if my inspiration.

[Craig]

I would sure like a closer look at that rigging. That looks as if it is hinged to the gaff. Can you make out that lune going to the lower cenbter of the tops'll?

[Guest]

I shot about eight shots yesterday of very detailed rigging shots. I forgot to downsize the pizels, so none of them fit here. I can't get the shots crop tonight. Bummer. I will work on it later. I have just gotten in from planking and I am covered in dust.