Sailed Yesterday

[Dave R1]

We went out for a sail on Julie K yesterday. It was probably a little too windy but we were there and the boat was set up. We had four adults and Ian who is only 3 1/2 mos. Even with all that weight and the main reefed, the boom was usually on the lee shroud and the lee rail was in the water a lot.

Although I recently added the jib club, we didn't use it. I put the traditional two jib sheets on instead. At least with that arrangement if I let both sheets fly the jib spills its wind.

We sailed on Cannon Lake near Faribault (fair-i-bo). It's a great lake for sailing. For the area, it is big--almost 1600 acres. The lake is quite shallow near shore on either side of the boat landing but deep enough between the docks to get the rudder down.

I think I'll be making a new rudder over the winter though. This time I'll leave out the lead and rig a self-releasing hold down. It would be nice to have the rudder float once in close to shore on this lake.

Here's a shot of the lake from the boat landing.

[Florin {VACATIONER}]

Excellent! Glad to hear you guys are having fun sailing on a regular basis. Good thing we don't have a keel with these shallow lakes... Both lakes we've sailed so far have shalow parts and sand/gravel bars which wreck many a boat's keels, rudders and propellers. Just talked to a fellow two days ago on the lake and he said he broke two blades out of three on his prop... on the gravel bar.

We'll probably have to re-paint our rudder as well since we've dragged it on gravel a bit. Oh well, if you don't have any rashes on her she don't look like she's beying used at all.

Have fun

[Dave R1]

Thanks Florin. Yesterday while I was taking a shower I had this idea. (My best ideas always come while I'm in the shower but I usually forget them before I get out.) I think I'll add a plastic strip to the leading edge and bottom of my rudder. I'm thinking of something like they do on the end of wooden canoe paddle blades. Don't know if it will work but a rudder is a pretty easy thing to make so what the heck.

[Mike Pennington]

Konrad, gave me the idea to use a bungee instead of line to pull the rudder in to place. Then if you hit something it gives and moves out of the way.

Dave, let me know what you come up with for a self release, I'm always open for something new.

My keel has taken some hard knocks, too. But I figure after a few years of wearing it down, I can trim it off to look like Daves modification. :roll:

Good Day, folks.

Mike

[Florin {VACATIONER}]

Dave, I wonder if one could find some self adhesive material which would be thin enough to not ruin the hydro-dynamics of the rudder, but strong enough to withstand the bumps and abrasions from the lake bottom. Even if one would have to replace it seasonally. We've hurt out rudder in a different more unconventional fashion. Like Mike said, we have a piece of shock cord keeping our rudder down, so that when it hits any underwater obstruction it moves up to clear... and then once is clear it gets pulled down under the shock cord tension.

We were putting out on Saturday, and Barb forgot about the rudder being down... We (I) drove out of the water on the ramp with the rudder dragging on the gravel for about 50' before people realized and flagged me down. Not much damage, just chewed through the paint and fiberglass, but didn't chew the wood much at all... We also have a hole drilled through the rudder and rudder box so that the rudder can be locked in the up position with a bolt when launching or putting out. This is a great idea, except its a bugger to get down to the rudder to get the pin out to release the rudder in its down position once launched unless you either lean over the taffrail really low which sometimes feels like you'll fall overboard, or swim around the boat to get to it.

Another problem we have with the rudder is that there is too much clearance between it and the rudder box. The shock cord will most times slip between the rudder and box and jam the rudder. Then, your only option is to take an oar and try to push the rudder down which is not an easy task.

Solution to this problem is to make some filler washers on either side of the rudder to eliminate the gap. The rudder and box were made according to plans... if we knew it we would have built either the rudder thicker, or the box opening smaller. I believe Craig had the same problem and his rudder was vibrating. Ours didn't vibrate yet...but now we have this problem. I think Craig made some rings out of nylon to fill the gaps and I believe that took care of his problem. Lots of things to work on still, and lots of things to learn.

Cheers

[Craig]

Florin I shimmed the sides of the rudder pivot with 5"x5" plexiglass glued on with 4200. Still using them, works great. Did I forget to tell you about the semi annual referbishment of the rudder tip? It is all sand here and it takes the paint right off. The glass holds up pretty well. I normally re do it in the winter with more epoxy and new paint.

[Knut]

Hi,

I am sure the shock cord works well and for sure, it is safer than a rudder fixed by a strong line. At the same time, the pull-down force of the cord will cause a pretty tight contact with the bottom, may be while the boat is still moving, and some abrasion will be unavoidable.

I bought a self-release jam-cleat that worked very well. It would release at a certain load (could be adjusted both on the cleat and by the rope angle entering the cleat) and the rudder would be completely free to move. Very easy to reset after a release.

[Dave R1]

I need to look at Knut's cleat. I've thought about the shock cord but the only way I can see it working with the existing design has the cord down in the water. I've got enough drag as it is so I'm mulling over some other method. It might require a modification to the rudder box--I'm not sure yet.

I have been thinking about the self-adhesive thing, too. Haven't quite got that one straight either. My neighbor has a fiberglass runabout with a piece of rubber glued to the keel. This rubber was molded to fit the boat but is available as an aftermarket thing. I'm wondering about getting a piece of something similar for the keel.

As far as that plastic strip, I was figuring on installing it prior to shaping the rudder and then shaping it along with the wood. I wouldn't bother to make it replaceable. I'd sand out the knicks until it got bad enough and then make another rudder. I figure our rudders aren't all that high-performance that a few missing chunks will change their behavior much. I might even make several rudders at a time.

Instead of plastic, I might try epoxy. I think if I cut the rudder out about 1/4" outside the finished dimension along the leading edge and bottom, rout a slot along the edge and fill it with epoxy, I should be able to get a nice radiused edge of epoxy along there.

We'll see and I'll be sure to share.

Maybe we need some sort of foorce field that senses the rock or lake bottom seconds before impact and raises the rudder just enough to clear. Let's see....I need a forward looking sonar unit, a μ processor and a high torque motor. Yeah, yeah, I'm an idea guy. Yeah. Feed fish mayonnaise.

[Florin {VACATIONER}]

As you guys have seen in my posted pics a few days ago, the sand here has very large grains :-)

We got a few serious nicks in the keel due to the "beaching" we've done.

Also because we beached on a lee shore (we've had no choice) the waves kept pushing the boat back and forth in the rocks which isn't that great a thing.

I used to freak out at the beginning about any nicks we may get in the boat. Now I know its inevitable and quit worying about it so much, its almost a fact of life. We'll just have to fix the bruises in the off season.

Craig, the plexiglass idea is great. I know I have some plexi and lexan hanging about in my garage. Is the 4200 transparent when it cures? If not I would like to find something that cures clear so that is not visible.

We'll definitely have to get some more touch-up paint (good thing we've kept the recipe so that we get the same shade) to fix up the damages.

We bought some fenders but haven't used them yet. That was stupid. Good thing they have plastic docks here... there's no damage to the hullsides yet. Just a bunch of white lines which are easy to rub off.

Cheers

[Florin {VACATIONER}]

Dave, the epoxy idea sounds good... and if you mix it with chopped up cotton it is aparently a lot stronger. If I were to make another rudder I would make it thicker and I wouldn't have to add the shims, but now its too late and don't feel like building another. Maybe next year.

Speaking of fish-finders: I bought one (Eagle Cuda 240S) and installed it on the boat couple of weeks ago. It works wonders... too bad it isn't forward looking like you said. Although for our boats I don't think it really matters. I spent an extra $25 bucks and got the one with GPS and its great when making small adjustments in sail trim... it really lets you know if you're screwing up royally. I've got it hooked up to a car battery which sits in one of the rear cockpit seats... I know it really wasn't a wise idea to add more weight aft there, but we just wanted to get it installed quickly without having to install the batteries in the forepeak and having to run wires and electircal in the whole boat. We'll do that in the off season. So we'll have to put up with this inconvenience as well until the next season.

[Craig]

The 4200 is white Florin. There are some clear adhesives out there although no names come to mind. The shells concreted to the pilings and docks raise holy hell with my upper rub rail. The angle of the hull is such that the fenders want to roll up or down but never stay where they belong. Anyone have a idea of a cover that wouldn't spoil the shear line but still protect the wood?

[Knut]

I quickly came to the conclusion that using fenders on the Weekender was a waste of time and effort (at least the fenders I know about). This because I had no lifelines and stanchions where I could fine adjust placement of fenders and because of the sharp curve of the rubrail (a small angle adjustment of the longitudinal boat axis and the fenders would quickly be in the wrong place). Especially when you come to a dock with vertical pilings as first contact, it becomes impossible to handle fenders without one person per fender (which will tip the boat).

I installed a commercial plastic rubrail in addition to the stock wood rubrail (slightly narrower) and in full hull length. This took completely care of all worries. I never touched anything any more with wood, only the plastic thing and the stuff is tough and durable and shows no damage at all even after some rough contact with wood and concrete and barnacles etc.

[Craig]

I'm sold. What is this stuff you used Knut.

[Knut]

Craig,

I let go of my binder with the boat with all materials catalogues and other documentation, so I don't have it at hand any more. But it should be pretty easy to find in the West Marine website or in their catalogue. Probably also other sources available.

Basically their rub-rails consist of a main plastic strip with a number of different profiles (thickness, width, symmetric, assymetric, with a lip on one side etc) that you fix to the boat using SS wood screws. They have all a profile groov where you enter the screws, which is also the channel (groov) where you insert a smaller plastic hose (about 1/2"). This hose is often in a contrasting color and it covers the screws so they don't show and more importantly, they don't hook into anything when the boat slides along a dock.

They come in a range of dimensions, colors and contrast colors and by the foot, or in sets for boats of different length. I found the plastic rubrail easy to install and I did not have a single scratch in the paint afterwards. Before, there would be a patching point somewhere after every trip.

Well worth the cost and effort in my opinion.

[Craig]

I think I have seen the ones you mean. I passed on them before because they didn't look like they were a good fit; however, after fixing this keel again I am tired of fixing.... Time to go sail and not have the pilings at my favorite beach bar chainsaw through the rails. Thanks for the tip. Iwill take another look at those rails. Did you inlet the plastic into the rail or just lay it over the top?

[capt jake]

As far as the keel is concerned, I have given thought to Spantex (as Barry proclaims). Not sure how it will work in this application however.

The best solution would be Rhino lining or any of the other truck bed coatings. I am trying to figure out how to elevate teh boat off of the trailer in order for them to apply it. But it should be a good fix.

Heck, they are using it on the bottoms of the Oregon drift boats; and those take a heck of a beating.

[Dave R1]

I wonder how Knut's rub rail stuff would work on the keel.

I'll be looking for that stuff for JULIE K.

[Mike Pennington]

Rino on drift boats, thanks for the idea, Jake.

Opps! will be needing a new coat of bottom paint before next season, I'll look into trying that. A friend told me he coated the inner hull of his schooner and it peeled, but maybe their was moisture. I'm also wonder if it will stick to epoxy fiberglass?

I was thinking of a shoe, for my keel, C-channel shaped plastic stuff. I plow rocks every once in awhile, concrete ramps and docks included.

I like the plastic rub rail idea, too. Does that stuff float? Is it positive or negative ballast?

[Knut]

The plastic rubrails I used were fixed directly onto the existing upper wood rubrail. Unless you have narrower than normal wood rubrails it is easy to find a dimension slightly narrower than your existing rubrail. The advantage of mounting on top is that the contact point between dock and boat moves away from the hull side by the thickness of the plastic rubrail. This gives added margin against direct contact if the boat is heeling and bobbing in passing waves or for whatever other reason.

It will be no problem to fix such a rubrail along the keel and I am sure it will work as an excellent protection. What I am not so sure about is friction if the boat rests on the keel against rough ground or for that matter on the trailer. Probably this will be no problem, but without experience I would not promise anything. The simple and reliable solution for the keel is one extra hardwood batten. I used 1" thickness oak screwed to the keel using 3M5200 in the holes to avoid letting water into the keel. The oak-batten was only treated with deck oil. Because of the oil it was always sliding easily on most substrates and the wear was quite limited. Upkeep is also very simple: Just brush on some oil once and a while. If the protection becomes a little bit beaten and "hairy" it is no problem at all. Does not show anyway when the boat is in the water.

The plastic rubrail sinks and will contribute as ballast (marginally!).

The one I used is 1" wide, 1/2" thick and had a 1/8" lip along one edge that I let go around the upper edge of the wood rubrail.