glass cloth on top

[adla]

i glassed the topside today...and found a big difference in the deck which had been hit with epoxy before and the cabin roof which had only been filled and sanded a bit. if i were to do it all over again...any and all exposed plywood would get epoxy first...i must be using doug fir and perhaps not all plys are as *thirsty* but my plywood was mighty *thirsty*. i really think the plastic bondo spreaders work well for putting the cloth down. i thought it worked so well...i was ready to start a new church.

is it necessary to get the rub rails on before turning the boat ? i was thinking about rigging some kind of straps to hold the boat from the carport and using a come-along or something to turn her over. i haven't finished the lazzerette deck or started the seats....i would really like to get the hull in order first. i am open to opinions...you people seem to have it 'going on'.

my goal is to have the bottom finished and in a better and mobile frame before i get to the final interior. i'd rather not have to find a bunch of people for turning the boat...my dad is a volunteer but he's 78 and i think it is a bit much for the two of us.

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[Barry Pyeatt]

Yes, it is a good idea to put a coat of epoxy on the plywood before glassing. Less apt to have starved spots on the glass that way. Your top looks good.

I think it is wise to set the top rail so you are certain of the line you want. Trim to that line and then you can remove the rail if you want to glass below it. I'm a proponent of glassing the entire hull and then attaching the rails. I like the uninterrupted glass and less maintenance potential.

I didn't do that on mine however. I attached the top rail, (a sandwich of 2-1X2's with the inner one rabbited to fit over the ply). It is a really beefy rail and adds considerably to the overall strength of the side panel/rail. I will glass up to that rail and then add the lower rail after finishing the hull on the outside.

I would make any attachments to the hull sides and bottom that you are going to need prior to glassing it. Seat stringers, etc. You don't have to install the seats until after it is finished, but you will appreciate attaching the stringers prior to glassing.

At this stage, it doesn't take much to turn it over. Three people can probably do it easily, one of them your dad to steady things while you move around to the other side. My daughter, son-in-law and myself turned mine over without any challenges. We just put a blanket under the side rail and lifted it up. Then slid it over a bit and then let it down. No problem. After it gets glassed and finished, you might want more help to keep from dinging it up any, but the procedure it just the reverse.

That side panel when locked in is incredibly strong. The addition of a top rail will make it even stronger.

Others have rigged up a sling or a come-a-long and used that to help, but remember, you don't have to get it clear of the ground, only roll it over.

[adla]

right...i should get the shelf in and the seat stringers on before rolling and glassing...good call Barry. it is perfect weather for sailing here....breezy and hot in the day/cool in the evenings...i fear i am going to miss the best of the year building the boat not sailing it.

i'm not sure i can roll the boat..i have a hard time with a 40lb bad of dog food. it looks like i will be asking around and buying lunch for some folks.

a.

[capt jake]

Adla, did you ever explain how you can squeeze soooo much time out of a day?

You are 'rockin' along on this project! Looking good and at lightning speed!

Good going'!

[Mike Henderson (Oregon)]

...One month on the job?...That's amazing...

:!:

[Barry Pyeatt]

I have trouble with a 40# bag of dog food as well. It is soft and yields a bit when you try to move it. You also have to lift it off the ground.

But rolling the boat up on its side, and then over onto its top isn't all that difficult and shouldn't take more than about 5 min. How about a nice cold Iced tea or soda and some cookies? When you need them to bring it back to right side up they get the lunch.

Multi tasking Jake, multi tasking. Then work with a purpose and a plan. And don't bother sanding and filling and sanding and filling......quite as much. :wink: Also finish as you build. Rather than waiting to do it all after you finish building. Lots easier and saves a bunch of frustration in trying to get things done. It just sort of all comes together. 8)

[adla]

i was afraid sorta how it wasn't like a bag of dog food and would land on me *sqeak*......thar i would be...under the boat....terrible.

cap'n Jake....time is a funny thing..there used to be more time but it slips away with technology....

i just get to it if it is going to happen...

plus, barry is right...sand and fill and sand and fill isn't my bag....i will hit it is all ~ quick, fill ...sand ever so lightly..paint and soak the boat...i wanna sail and vacation more than i want to *sand*.....

i'd rather sail the boat than polish it...and into the RocKs !

[Dave R1]

Adla, its sure looking good.

My opinions on the rub rails--I considered waiting on the lower rail but decided I would just go ahead and do it with the boat rightside up before glass. I epoxied and screwed the rail in place and with a bit of squeeze out, there is a small fillet on both the top and bottom seam. I doubt any water will infiltrate that area.

I ended up trimming the side panels flush with the deck (actually a hair below because I ran a router along the side with a home made edge guide) and rabbeted the top railk so it hooks over edge. That made installing it quite easy since the curve of the deck set the curve of the rail and there really was no way to screw it up.

The lower rail was set at 5" (I think) below the top one. I cut a gauge block that was long enough to run from the bottom of the top rail to the centerline of the lower one. I drew a line following the gauge block and then drill small holes like they do in the video for mounting the shelves. then I cut the gauge block to the distance btween the top and bottom rails. I held the block between as I installed the lower rails. After the first screw on the outside at the bow, my bride drilled and drove from inside using the little holes I'd already drilled as a guide. I held the rail and the block and we just worked down the hull.

As to rolling the boat, It's not that hard unless you roll it end for end. :shock: Just make sure you roll it away from you. Then you can ride it on its way over. I did that when I rolled it upright after glassing.

Good luck.

Dave

[adla]

ok...so i may be a bit confused about the rubrails...i haven't done anything to the sides that stick up past the deck because i wasn't sure if the rubrails are supposed to follow the curve of the side or the curve of the deck..i thought i'd just put it off *laugh* because i wasn't sure how to deal with it.

pictures would help if anyone has one handy...

a.

[Dave R1]

Adla, here are a couple of pictures of Julie K

Sorry about the quality of the second but I hope you can see that the sides are flush along the deck with only a bit of the rail sticking up.

If you look at the plans, I think you'll see the sides were supposed to be left a little higher than the deck. I looked for some pictures showing a Weekender built like that but couldn't find any in a very brief search. I think they even show attaching the upper rubrail from the inside of the side panel. I whent right along the top at deck level so I ended up putting screws in from the outside and then putting bungs in the holes.

[Phil Gowans]

The plans call for a 1x2 (actual 3/4x1 1/2) to fit on the outside of the sides panel and a half round inside of it. I drew up this for what I did on my rail and hatches:

I wanted to hide the top of the side plywood so I imbeded it inside a mahogany bender that was cut to actual 1x2. I used the same size bender inside and down to the deck. My sides did not come up equally along the whole sheer, and I don't think most people have enough above to do it so that it will look nice. By hiding the side in the rail it could vary and not be seen.

[Dave R1]

That's what I was hoping to find. Thanks Phil. Phil has a great approach if you want the rail to extend up above the deck. By sandwiching the side panel between the inner and outer rails he eliminates any variation in height of the side panel above the deck.

I wonder where Phil was when I was at that point. :wink: I might have taken his solution instead of doing what I did although I'm pleased with the way mine came out in the end.

[adla]

Thanks Dave and Phil...

i like the looks of both. Phil that is a great shot of the rubrails going on. I am going to call the hardwood place and see if they have mohogany benders. part of my problem is that i have a great table saw and router table combo and it is stuffed in a 10x12 shed/house in the back where it isn't much good for cutting boards over 6 feet...heartbreaking really. i am going to have to come up with a way to do the rabbet...

the picture is a great visual...muchas gracias!

A.

[Barry Pyeatt]

I flat out copied Phil's rails. I give him all the credit for giving me the incentive to do that same thing.

Now my sister-in law has a slightly different perspective. I think she actually blames him for needing 6-8 hands and a lot more clamps to get all of it on the boat.

But it sure is solid.

I also liked the idea because I'm also adding oarlocks. So the doubled up rail gives me an ideal location already to mount the base.

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[Dave R1]

Barry, I don't think you have enough clamps. Drop what you are doing and go buy some more.

[adla]

thanks Barry, for the photos. I know that the visual aide is what helps me the most....what length screws did you use? You obviously counter sunk them and filled the hole, right? ...i don't think i have near as many clamps as you...must pick a few more up...Phil..i am going to flat out copy Barry's rails which are a copy of yours...(just a little disclosure)

i'll let you know how it goes...perhaps today...or tomorrow.

a.

[Barry Pyeatt]

Yes, I countersunk them and then filled the holes. I used 1 1/4" screws.

They were staggered one in the upper half of the rail, between the two rail pieces and the next one in the bottom half of the rail, thru the rails as well as the plywood, and so on. They were on about 4" centers if I recall correctly. That is more than is needed by quite a bit.

One difference between my rail and Phil's is that I had a fair amount of plywood above the deck so my rails sit proud of the deck surface with more height (clearance) at the bow and it gets closer to the deck as it gets to the transom.

One of the reasons I wanted more height was for a scupper to be let into the side at deck level just forward of the main bulkhead. That allows the spray and water that gets up on the boat to run off rather than puddling. That scupper is about 3/4" X 3" and is epoxy saturated and coated. My deck coating (Spantex) will extend thru the scupper so that it is one continuous surface for water to flow over.

[Phil Gowans]

I don't have any of those fancy stationary tools, just some hand power tools. I cut my rabbet with a router. This allowed me to vary the height to fit where the side panel height varied. I wanted as much side in there as possible for strength. I screwed the rails from both sides about every 9 inches, alternating offset up and down. I don't recall what size screw I used, but I used ceramic deck screws on almost all construction and used the longest that would fit without going through.

Hint:If you are planning on using mahogany or other bright finished wood, buy yourself a plug cutter and a drill/countersink set for cutting the same size hole. You can cut your own plugs out of the same wood in a few minutes and the plugs look wonderful.

Barry, I put in scuppers that go right under my top rail on the outside and are angled into the inside rail so that water will flow off the deck and through the scupper. I cut 5 on each side about 1" x 1/4" about every 9 inches apart. I epoxy coated them and the work quite well.

[Dave R1]

Good tip on the plugs, Phil.

Adla, if you do as Phil says and use bungs or plugs over the screws, rip the stock for them just a hair wider than the plugs will be. Set up a fence on a drill press table so that you can run the stock along it, cutting plugs. Don't cut all the way through the stock. Leave about 1/16" of wood. If you cut the plugs properly, you'll have a row of plugs on a flexible backing This will make them much easier to handle for setting.

Set the plugs so their grain runs the same direction as the stock you are plugging. If you think you'll ever want them out, "glue" them in with varnish rather than epoxy.

By the way, there are two kinds of plug cutters. Buy the kind that makes tapered plugs.

[adla]

ok. I have sent my dad for the plug cutter...we just picked up the rub rail material...i wanted to get 16ftrs but the place had nothing that long...the best i could do was 14ft mahogany. (no ash, they were out of pine...) i chose real straight grain with little (maybe even no) runout. i am going to pull the jointer out of the shop and get the edges straight/semi-straight..and then use my circular saw with rip fence to cut the 2 inch pieces. Phil, i am guessing that your put the rubrail up on the deck and marked the rabbet off live? Somebody talk to me about these scuppers...? It sounds like a great idea...but i might be a little thick headed and need it explained in small words....sorry for being such a brick..you guys are priceless for help...REAlLY :?

a.