Weekender Schooner

[Capn Trey]

Stuart,

How are you doing on your schooner variant of the Weekender?

Nokoni has been in Dry Dock since axle broke on trailer, so I started with some more mods that I've been wanting to try, I am seriously considering converting to a schooner rig while doing the mods.

Have you sailed her yet?

Cap'n Trey

[Craig]

Funny you should post this today Three Horse. Lately I have been reading the Gaff Rig Handbook, looking at the top sails and cutter rigs again. In the middle of a telecon this affternoon I started thinking about Stuart and wondering how far along he is. As I recall he was behind on his photo record also. Stuart how goes it Mate???? ( Other than cold and snowy.) :wink:

[Mike Pennington]

He had a good start, sure caught my attention.

Hmm, topsail? Another haiyard, I would like that :roll:

There was a time last summer when my friend Lars and his Loon scooted ahead in the lighter winds. The battle wagon had to put her sweeps out to keep from being out done.

Would you have the topsail lift from the gaff to the mast? Would you go with a longer mast or strap an extension to the top of the mast? Another thought I had was would we need a lazy jack of some sort, to keep the topsail from flapping about when down.

Because I plan to sail Ketchimak Bay this summer, I plan to add a second layer of marine ply to the bottom. Rough and rocky shores up this way on the coast. The extra ballast will help on the bigger lakes I have in mind as well. The mountain winds can come up fast, I found the Vacationer can take the heavier winds as long as your ready to dump some air out of the sails fast.

I am very interested in what you come up with Craig.

Mike

[Jim Stumpf]

Over the summer Stuart knocked his head pretty hard and was laid up for awhile, had to miss work I believe. I have not seen him around here or the BYYB since, I hope that all is ok with him.

Jim

[Dave R1]

Mike P, depending on how far your mast rises above all the fittings, ie. shrouds, forestay and halyard blocks, you might need to build a slightly longer mast. This would be to have room for the fittings for a top mast. Traditionally the top mast would run up through a couple of fittings on the front of the mast. There would be a halyard attached to the heel of the top mast that runs up and over a sheave and down on deck so that you could run the mast up while on the water. There's additional shrouds and forestay to consider and depending on the way the topsail is rigged, proabably two or three halyards. Sounds like just the ticket for a guy who wants more lines to tug at.

[Capn Trey]

That is bad news. . . hope he is okay and quietly working on his boat.

Cap'n Trey

Over the summer Stuart knocked his head pretty hard and was laid up for awhile' date=' had to miss work I believe. I have not seen him around here or the BYYB since, I hope that all is ok with him.

Jim[/quote']

[Capn Trey]

My concept drawing of completed phase 4 Weekender Plus.

Cap'n Trey

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[Capn Trey]

Funny you should post this today Three Horse. Lately I have been reading the Gaff Rig Handbook' date=' looking at the top sails and cutter rigs again. In the middle of a telecon this affternoon I started thinking about Stuart and wondering how far along he is. As I recall he was behind on his photo record also. Stuart how goes it Mate???? ( Other than cold and snowy.) :wink:[/quote']

Nokoni has been blocked up in the shop since I broke an axle on my trailer in early November. Had to repair some damage to hull as I was driving at 55 mph when the axle broke just inside the hub, wheel shot across the left lane into the median. . . anyway I've had time to ponder several new modifications for my boat.

BTW Nokoni has been invited to play a Union :oops: Ship in May 2004's Thunder On The Bay, reenactment of the Battle of Mobile Bay! I hope to have the mods complete by then.

[Craig]

It seems like I did read that Stuart got hurt. I hope he is OK.

Nice concepts Trey! Are you going to add more length? The drawings are lovely. Will you still trailer her or leave her in the water? I still need to get over to your place to sail with you. Congratulations on the invitation. I am mulling the addition of a top mast for the Saralee and a sprit mod to add a yankee. I suppose a lapper is necessary as well but don't mention this in front of Saralee the Mate. She knows what the cost of sail cloth is.

I am not sure how to handle the top mast. A fidded mast and halyards are neat but I suspect too much on a small boat such as these. A permenently mounted top mast gives a bit much overhang while on the trailer I think, although if held to 4 ft or so you might get away with a perminent mount. The conventional shroud arrangement is problematic for a small boat as well. This needs more thought and possibly some expirementation to see how light one could go. Mike's lazy jack point is well made as one must restrain the sail when it is lowered or take it all the way off. Mike how did you rig the sheets for your lapper? I don't think I ever saw that mod. Did you extend the sprit or just use the stock length with the larger sail? Too long a sprit causes more poroblems than it solves. Some kind of running rigging may be the solution. Every thing in the book is very clear and rational on a 40 or 50 ft boat but turns strange fast at 22 ft. Let's talk about some of these ideas and see what we can come up with. It worked well with the ballest issue. Arr, what say ye mates?

[Capn Trey]

I'm going to stick with the length as it is, any longer and the stern comes to a point.

My nephew has loaned me a trailer to use since mine is totaled, and it is huge so no problem trailering it. I will have to figure out a way to fold both masts with out excessive over hang, the trailer is so big I might just remove the aft mast at the hinge and store on the trailer.

I know I will shorten the cabin to half its length, I never go in there so I though I'd use the space for more seating and a bridge deck at the main mast.

Cap'n Trey

It seems like I did read that Stuart got hurt. I hope he is OK.

Nice concepts Trey! Are you going to add more length? The drawings are lovely. Will you still trailer her or leave her in the water? I still need to get over to your place to sail with you. Congratulations on the invitation. I am mulling the addition of a top mast for the Saralee and a sprit mod to add a yankee. I suppose a lapper is necessary as well but don't mention this in front of Saralee the Mate. She knows what the cost of sail cloth is.

[Tom Holder]

How about folding the aft mast forward? Seems to me I saw that on another boat with two masts somewhere but I can't recall which site it was on at the moment.

[Capn Trey]

How about folding the aft mast forward? Seems to me I saw that on another boat with two masts somewhere but I can't recall which site it was on at the moment.

thats not a bad idea, I'll add it to all the others that are banging around in my head!

Thanks Tom!

Cap'n Trey

[Barnacle Jim]

Good morning, Captain Trey,

The schooner sketches look great., but what about stability? How much sail area can we add to these boats?

[Mike Pennington]

Depending on the day, the wind and how sure I am of the weather is how I rig my sails. My boats so heavy compared to my friends' boats they love to get me out on a light wind day or in a body of water with lots of channels and high hills. :twisted: Thats why I wanted to investigate the possibilites of a topsail. Pure selfish revenge.

I have had my Vacationer out in some heavy winds, scarey winds infact. The gaff rig will allow you to spill wind to stay up right if you pay attention and you are careful. Not to mention insane!

Easy is the key word for this project I believe. Easy to douse , easy to raise, safty in mind, and no doubt it helps to have crew for the extra lines and halyards.

Craig, I went looking for pics, I don't use a club foot for the inner staysail, though if I got the length right one would make handling easier with the lapper furled out. I have two lappers now this is the larger one, though I prefer the smaller because it furls tighter on the forestay. I need to fix some hard points for the sheets for better sail shape this next season. But the system works just as it is with no trouble. Flying two foresails takes enough wind to keep them up and apart. To much wind and one needs lots of crew to hold the boat down because she wants to fly. I just like the option of picking my sail for the moment.

The two lines hanging from the furled sail are the starboard and port sheets. The furling line runs aft to the cockpit along the sprit and cabin. It helps to keep tension on both the inuse sheet and furling line when letting the sail out or furling, otherwise one will have a nice tangled mess up on the spool. :roll: I have since run the spirt chain forward and added an eye bolt to guided the furling line on to the spool. I believe I spread the stays an aditional six inches by moving the aft one back. My sprit is only maybe six inches longer, I just moved it forward in the bitts instead to gain my length. I put a bottom under my rough trail boards so I could wedge my big feet in to get out on the sprit to mess with the furling stay when I first started learning to use it.

But with past practice, luck and the right weather, I can handle the boat solo with all sails up no problem. I have become very good at bringing the Wolf up into the wind to douse sail area all by my lonesome.

The addition of the wheel makes that a lot easier by the way.

I would go with a mast extension perhaps attached to the sail it self, like what I beleive you are talking about. Depending on the tack, a long one no doubt, because I wouldn't want to be hauling the sail up and down all the time to switch sides. Clearing the peak halyard is definately an issue. If the sail were attached to the gaff it would only be good for one direction of tack. Well thats the way I see it, anyway.

Gee, that was fun, a nice break from work in the lab, mining, writing and the other things I do to keep my little extended family going in the winter months. Mike

[Capn Trey]

Good morning' date=' Captain Trey,

The schooner sketches look great., but what about stability? How much sail area can we add to these boats?[/quote']

I think that by increasing the keel to eleven inches all the way back(remember my boat is already 4 ft longer than a standard) will compensate for the change in center of force of the sail plan and adding 3 to 5 hundred pounds ballast should make it at LEAST AS stable if not MORE SO than it is at present, and I am comfortable with the stability now.

BTW Mike nice pic's . . .come take some of my boat

what ya think, Skipper

Cap'n Trey

[Barry Pyeatt]

More than likely making the keel 11" deep all the way back will not help. It will probably result in making it more difficult to turn and tack. The keel will then act like a rail to keep it going straight.

[Capn Trey]

More than likely making the keel 11" deep all the way back will not help. It will probably result in making it more difficult to turn and tack. The keel will then act like a rail to keep it going straight.

You may very well be correct about the keel, I am using the Weekender as a prototype to try different ideas to be incorporated into my own design for a larger schooner that I plan to build. I am by no means a naval architect but it seems the keel and sail plan should be balanced, therefore more masts and sails more keel to balance.

Which ever way the things that work go into the design and the things that don't get redesigned until they do.

I have done all my mods so far the only way I know how, plan it out, draw it, build it to fit whats actually there. If it still looks like it will work give it a try!

It works for me,

Cap'n Trey

[Mike Pennington]

Right! I have to keep my oars handy as it is on a calm day or get stuck half way into coming about.

Your boats a Weekender right Cap'n Trey? I remember looking at drawings and pictures of your modifications. I would think your modification by extending the water line would be to the boats advantage. Certainly more room.

Maybe I need to go back and look at your drawing

OH YEAH..! Okay, maybe a little more ballast to shift around to get it right

No truthfully, I would love to see this work for you and I think it is possible. The aft, main mast, I guess being the larger, could be made lighter by doing the birdsmouth method even. Keeping the stern light would be on my mind, so keeping the materials down on the aft structure would help. I think as long as you concentrated on keeping the two masts and sail plan to proportion half the problems you could have would be solved.

By using movable ballast at first, you could see where adding more permanent structure would assist.

Also very cool particpating in the re-enactment of historiacal events. But let me think now, your in the deep south, are you sure you want to be the Yankees! :shock: You better get yourself a Homelite water bug, great water cannon for fending off boarders.

[Capn Trey]

Also very cool particpating in the re-enactment of historiacal events. But let me think now' date=' your in the deep south, are you sure you want to be the Yankees! :shock: You better get yourself a Homelite water bug, great water cannon for fending off boarders.[/quote']

I asked if I could Please be a reb. . . alas no luck! They did offer to put a cannon aboard! :!: But they looked just a wee bit heavy for my little boat. maybe I should risk it, might come in handy for personal defence

Any way it sounded like fun so I thought I'd go for it.

Cap'n Trey

[Craig]

Thanks for the photos Mike. Now I see how you did this. I thought you were using a furler. Are your sheeting points Ok where you have them or would you move then closer to the house? I know what you mean about light air days. With a nice breeze I can run the hell out of the plastic boats up to about 30' but just let the wind die off and then they bring out the big sails and slowly walk away from me. It is not that I mind being left behind so bad as it is the sun. Summer down here on the water is brutal with no wind. Trey I also think adding to the keel is wasted effort. It will improve the tracking ability but will definitely make her harder to tack and jibe. The weight addition will do more for your righting moment than 4" more keel. I used to be able to put my rail in the water with a moderate breeze but since adding the ballast I need a stiff wind and have to force her down. No such thing as accidental water over the rail now. I suggest you play with the ballast first and add the wood later if you still think it would help. These boats are supposed to pivot around the deeper keel portion under the mast. Yankee boat huh?