Pipefitter

Greg,I usually didn't bother below 65

I chose the 1088 meranti because it was somewhat more durable in rot resistance. I also wanted a more weighty wood because my boat was originally built with solid planking. In my case,the ply is glassed just above and below waterline. The topsides are just epoxy sealed/painted except for where I used D-Fir on the sheer deck to stop the checking.It was already checked when I bought the fir. The meranti or okume will hold up well above waterline without glass. I think if I was to use unsheathed plywood,I would opt for the more exotic mahogany plies.I was under the impression that the face veneers on the meranti or okume is too thin to stand up to long term submersion. If one was wanting to use fir ply,it doesn't hurt to cover it with a light cloth and consider it part of the priming for paint stage. I used epoxy/ 4oz. cloth as a veil over the fir but now that has probably made it cost as much or more (read fairing and sanding work plus the cost of epoxy and glass)than if I had bought the 1088 ply in the first place. Since the sheer deck on my boat is structural,I wanted the tougher more rigid D-Fir. Here is the meranti clad pan of my boat glassed. Here is the topsides just epoxy coated.It was built outside and left in this condition for many months and never did check and still hasn't. I should also add that I have heard that meranti bends kind of funny. In my case,being that my boat is rather narrow in respect to it's length and it was built of seperate narrower planks of glued lap,this wasn't a concern in my situation. Maybe some others know about this aspect of the different plywoods.

We get the same bay clearings here as well Greg. I remember when living by Boca Grande,there was times in the winter where you could nearly walk across the bay if not for the intercoastal being carved in it. That was the best time to scout shell bars and structure we couldn't normally see and then fish there when the tides were normal in spring and summer. It's chilly/windy here today. We saw temps into the 20's this year and there was more than a few times during the build of my boat that the cold stopped me from epoxy/paint work.

Oyster also has a good point about money vs result and no matter what you spend, it is still going to be prettier,cheaper and a whole lot more satisfying than what most people spend on a snot boat.And aren't we all glad we don't have only polyester as an option to build a boat? I am sure our next door neighbors are very glad as well. Thanks for cluing me in on the rant,Greg. I went back and tried to soften up one of the replies. Sometimes my replies turn disassociated typing in the process. I just like talking about boats and since I finished mine,I'm experiencing a little project withdrawals.

Good point,Barry. Now that you mention it,the epoxy supplier I used claimed it to be more humidity friendly or designed for our higher temperatures as well.I suppose that could make some difference as to what solvents are used in their blend.Maybe not. I don't recall having any issues with the humidity. I also chose a supplier that had all the tools and cloths in stock. At first, I was convinced by my research of composite boat building,that I was going to have to use West epoxy to get any satisfactory results at all.

I may actually have to get one since I build mostly outdoors and the circular saw is my most used tool. I especially like the plunge feature and the soft start and with the guide rail would sure be a time saver.I would rather buy that than a low end table saw.

No rant.I thought was where you were going with the question. You mentioned cost differences and asked why would one consider one over the other. I merely stated that there is no reason to use any brand beyond preference.I also chimed in with others responses for conversation's sake. It seemed that all the replies were comparable. Sorry if it caused any confusion or clogged up your thread and I have no animosity towards any brand. West is almost worth it for all the research and processes they have developed over the years. I think you will find after what has been said here, that most of it is true.I did just offer opinion and discussion afterall.I took that as an invitation.Sometimes other avenues of the topic will jog a more applicable response from others more qualified and I like to learn too

Again,Tom, the points you just hit on is the same feeling I had gotten when talking to the supplier and what I had understood about the bulk of who they supply to. Their information gave me the feeling they were used to dealing with professionals who knew what they needed. If they have been in business for as long,someone must find their prices/quality satisfactory.That about sums it up. I did find about half way thru,being my first boat/epoxy trial,that I was glad to be able to afford enough volume to learn with and have enough for everything else. And to not break the bank if I had mixed too much for the task,etc.

That about says it,Oyster. Is pretty much what I meant about if someone can build a boat,they have the mindset to make and understand what works via the common sense comments.Also in agreement about storing the thicker mixes indoors. I used to set the jug of the thick stuff in hot water before using it if it was cool out. And if it wont come thru the pump,it is too thick.I used the one to one on wood joints so that my glue wasn't mostly filler/thickener powders.I did have to learn how and where to use it and I did some trials on scraps first to be sure. I also asked the supplier if there was compatibility issues if I primed the dry joints with thinner epoxy first and I could initially tell by how informative the supplier was which also let me know they had confidence/knowledge in what they were selling to me. After about a fourth of the way thru the project,I found I wasn't getting any on myself or my shoes(tops of them) anymore.

I used US composites.They had different speeds of hardener. I liked the slow hardener(2 to1) for glass work,medium 1 to 1 ratio thick epoxy for glue joints. I just made sure I had my working schedule set up effectively. I had a day or 2 worth of work on other parts incase of a slow cure. Even in colder weather though,the difference was hrs over days but I am in a more mild climate other than the humidity factor. I would use this again. The 1 to 1 thick also worked on the thread wraps on a fishing rod rebuild where I would have normally used flex coat rod builders epoxy. In no way am I claiming that the name brands are bad but I do think they are rediculously overpriced. 5 to 1 is an expensive mix/volume. I also prefer the 2 to 1 systems. I guess it really depends on what you can justifiably afford. I would also like to add that from a build to sell standpoint,that it might be better to use a name brand for buyer confidence/selling issues.

Epoxy,MAS,whatever should not be treated differently from a adhesion/protection standpoint, any further than a minimal primer.It's just a damned good one.Get some of the sample kits from different suppliers and conduct your own tests. I bet you find that it isn't false economy to use a more fairly priced product in terms of performance and longevity/durability.It's going to do the job and will not cut down on any maintenence that you would normally have to address. Is there really any noticeable difference? If you can build a boat,you can surely overcome any slight difference in coatings quality. I still feel it is more important to be able to afford more than enough needed to allow for adequate application.

I know alot of people have had different success/failures in regards to brand names vs. generic equivalents but I have tried several of the different brands and on the same boat.The only difference,being that epoxy is really overkill as an adhesive on wood for a boat,is being used to what you are working with. Any of the epoxies that saturate cloths effectively are going to have solvents in them. I found no difference in the brands other than amine blush issues. Did that matter? No. Why? Because no matter what the makers claim about amine blush or the lack of,you would still be wise to clean it as it blushed the worse.Are you going to believe the claims and not clean/sand the surfaces thoroughly?Ofcourse not. I bought the generic(about half priced of a popular brand) equivalent epoxy and it performed flawlessly. I have drops of epoxy primed ply outside now for 2 years to the weather and it has not budged. Waterproofing: My boat was built outside. During the hurricanes,I had to take the tent cover off and cover the boat with a polytarp instead and it did get water in the boat. About 4" in the bilge that I didn't catch for a whole week because I didn't think that much water had gotten in there. There was no discoloration of the ply under the epoxy where the water was sitting. If the epoxy hardens and builds to a solid film,it is epoxy as epoxy gets. It's all formulated from the same basic chemicals from not so many suppliers and just formulated for different performance. I even made my own penetrating epoxy with the generic epoxy, thinned with interlux's epoxy primer thinner 2333n.This stuff soaked in forever mixed at about 40% epoxy/thinner. Look at the coated wood under a magnifying glass with the different brands.It all looks the same.The best bet, is to not believe so much of the hype and just use it with common sense and maintain your boat like it doesn't have anything on it at all no matter what they claim. You are better off,to be able to afford extra volumes of the cheaper to be sure that you have enough to not have to skimp or chance dry glue/layups because you only have "just enough".

Ok,Stump. You looked and are going to just let me ramble in Oyster's thread ,without some input as to ease the speculative babble I have going on here? Thats a beautiful boat.An admirable achievement and I have to say I am impressed.I bet you are enjoying the heck out of it. I can only imagine. How much do you find yourself just staring at it?

They may be.Seems the traditional pangas had some kind of odd plank arrangement as well,especially towards the top. I'll have to look.It could be just the way they put the gains in the planking.Maybe someone else might know exactly what the reasoning behind that may be. The extra thick reveals on a glass boat would add rigidity to the sides for one, or maybe keep them from vibrating or flexing being they dont have the advantage of the double ply thickness at laps as a wood boat would. Especially in a frameless boat. Or to keep the spray away better or all of the above.

and they are quite proud of their snot too! I do like the look of it I think. How was the ride? The odd thicknesses probably translates to having to fair the mold like that which means it could be built better in wood. I would opt for the same reveal in the strakes like the Simmons ,other than where they taper to nothing at stem and stern.

Oh I did look at the caribbiana well before I built the Simmons and thats the boat I like. I would like to do one in glued lap.They kind of cheat with the caribbiana with the console so far back. I had a boat come into the shop tonight and I can't remember the name of it now but it looks like a Privateer similar to the sabalo picture. I also saw a panga at another site but there is other boats there that look like knockoffs of some other famous designs of yesterday and I am kind of spooked using a copycat set of plans if they dont fully deserve the credit. Maybe I am being too harsh on that.

Dang,How did I miss this one? Nice work on the Simmons and the others as well. And here I sit with plans for a 20,some nice 4 and 6/4 mahogany and the plywood just a truck ride across the state. This could really start something down here,ya know? Oyster,maybe you should rewrite what retired means. I am thinking it just means "tired again" and not like having quit working.

I don't know if anyone else has had problems with this brand but ever since Irwin took over the quick-grip line of instant bar clamps,I have found they don't hold near as well as the originals that were made by vise grip. I have some of the older black QG's and you can squeeze them with popeye forearms and even 2 handed. The newer ones slip. They must be using a lesser metal or something that lets the braking tabs inside the handle not get a good bite. Also,does anyone know of a good source of the plastic spring clamps without the articulating pads? Again,for my purpose,the originals made by vise-grip were better for me.

Another caution of "cheaper" stainless hardware. In some cases,if they used carbon steel machining tools on them at the factory,some filings/residue can become embedded in the surface which will also surface rust. I have found this to be in bow rails and even some high dollar mechanical outriggers and flush mounted rod holders.

Since I am a new lurker/member this shouldn't be a hijack,right? My next boat I am "considering" building is a panga.Something a little more modern looking than the Mexican version.Something along the lines of this(sabalo) boat but less a planing hull. Something suited for lower HP with a more sea kindly hull. I dislike the look of the modern glass panga as well. Any ideas? Something around 22-23ft. I am not opting for the tower either. Ken,thanks for the hospitality and the nice comments of my skiff. I also possess the plans for the Simmons 20ft and thats not entirely out of the question as a next build.

I guess if you're gonna hijack,what better more reasonable way than with a picture of a nice boat.

That garvey would be perfect for chasing them down too. Leave plenty of space on your camera for some action shots. I can see it now,low profile and up to a 5 ft'r launching skyward off port bow.I can get a day off when you are here this time. The water spots on the lens will be self explanatory,I'm sure ,if we can get them to bite.We dont even have to put in at the public ramp and will pass some great redfish,snook and trout(secret) spots on the way. If it's windy,we can hang by the mangroves and catch reds and snook providing there is no fronts. If there is, we will have to settle for specks which is fine by me. You mean my little guy? I still have to order the hydraulics for the steering.Doubt if it will be ready in a week. I know it wont be.

Tarpon are about in Tampa Bay. Up close to the bridges especially at night.

Thanks again, hijack away

Nice boat,nice work for sure.