charlesrider

John, I remember those! I remember racing (at least we thought we were racing) one through Woods Hole in my uncle's Sailstar Orion. It was beautiful! We were faster. You should have countless fun hours making it gleam like new. The one I remember had a beautiful black hull and lovely brightwork. Chad

Yeah, but a boat with a Seagull has only one moving part .... the rower! Frank, You got me laughing with that one. Have you ever tried to start one of those things when you needed it? The pull cord with the knot at the end leaves the frustrated oarsman looking like someone had taken a cat-o-nine-tails to him! Chad

Does anyone have any experience with the Sea Pearl 21? It seems like an interesting take on the pirogue style with balanced ends, leeboards and rotating masts with booms rather than spritbooms. Being 6'3" tall, centerboard trunks and I have an unhappy relationship when the wind is light and one winds up spending hours sittling still in the boat. Just curious.

My dad just sent along a the picture I mentioned earlier. The tow-headed 7 year old in front of the Seagull outboard is me 43 years ago! It shows how roomy, and dry the thing was. Dad scaled it up from 16' to 19'. This gave it pretty high freeboard, but it made it nearly un-capsizable and really kid friendly. Yes, those are cotton sails!

Ask anyone who has built one (I have not), I bet that the time it takes to get a CS-17 into "floatable-sailable" condition if one were to ignore as many details as is reasonable would not be significantly different from the time it takes to get a glass sheathed sharpie of the same size into floatable-sailable condition. The fact that a CS-17 cries out for a higher level of trim and more refined details than your average plywood sharpie is the time consuming part! Take this little sharpie http://www.cmdboats.com/catbird16.htm?cart_id=061aebc2f9e4b7adc1d576edd5b4dd3d and compare build time to a CS-17 or a BRS. Not much different. What's the difference between 500 and 600 hours? Three weeks of spare time. Build the one you want to sail! Take this nice little sailing dory http://www.cmdboats.com/sailingdory18.htm?cart_id=061aebc2f9e4b7adc1d576edd5b4dd3d. Not a hard build at all. In fact, if you build it without the cited "high level of trim" the rig will take more time than the boat if you sew your own sails. Or, Michalak's HC-Skiff http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/hc_skiff/index.htm which is a little bit of a departure for him. You mentioned Gardner's 20' sharpie. Great idea if you can replace that nasty rudder. Round ended stern though which makes a kick-up difficult. I notice there are no Bolgers on your horizon. Too iconoclastic? You might find some of what you are looking for there. As for me, I have very little time and money to spend on it so I would happily build an "Aunty Helen" or a Michalak "AF3" in preference to a CS-17 not because I wouldn't want the CS, but because I can get either of them done to a "low level of trim" for not much and very fast and not feel like I am wasting the opportunity for something nicer offered by the CS-17. I'd even trade one of them to you for your plastic MacGregor! (My kids don't yet appreciate the rougher side of life. And yes, that is a long story.) To my mind, puttering about with the details is less rewarding than tweaking the things that make the boat fast, safe, and fun to be on. Get it done and get sailing, that's what I say. Arranging to get time on the water is my waterloo. However, jawing about it gives us all huge amounts of pleasure.

This is an interesting thread. I like its pragmatism. Years ago, my dad built a slightly expanded (and expanded upon) version of Atkin's "Aunty Helen" sharpie. It was cheap, rugged, and we sailed it around Woods Hole MA. Those waters are not for the faint of heart and it handled them magnificently. At 19" it had enough floor to sleep on. Made of plywood and glass, it was water tight. Flat bottomed meant no dinghy. A split rig, good freeboard and substantial flair gave it great stability, and a substantial steel centerboard let us laugh at the occasional rock. It made quite an impression on me and my dad has some great pictures of a flock of smiling kids in kapok life preservers cheering as we buzzed the back of my uncle's ~18' Cape Cod catboat. One could rig this boat lots of ways. a balanced lug yawl, a sprit-gaff sprit-boom schooner, or cat-ketch "pirogue" style with wishbones or sprits. Or, you could do a big and low gaff schooner like Bolger's Light Schooner. My dad ketch rigged it with freestanding hollow box masts, booms, and a little jib. He says it improved the weatherliness to have a jib. I would choose a cat-ketch with a 70/30 area split between main and mizzen and good, full roaches. I think the taller main would improve the windward ability without adding the extra strings required for a jib. I don't mind having a main I have to reef in 15kts of wind if I can really move well in 5kts of wind. Here is a link. http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/AuntyHelen.html It is not a "looker" but it is handsome in a blockish kind of way. BTW. I'm turning out a little Michalak "Piccup" this spring. I want to experiment with PolyTarp sails and I want a boat I can haul out of my Pickup and into a local lake or river (all of em are small) in about 10 minutes. It is just too much "messing about" to take my sloop out sailing after work, and besides single handing turns into swimming if one cleats the jib sheet.

I'm going to be gluing up some spars this winter and I want to explore post-curing the epoxy I use to glue em up. I have a COLD garage in which to do the gluing. Hence, I am going to be heating the spars anyway so I have hatched a plan. I am going to use two 10" "Sonotube"s stuck (duct taped) together ( each 12' long for $14 each) as an enclosure, put the element from a 220V baseboard heater in it, and suspend the spars on a web strung across the middle of the tube. I should be able to get and keep it at almost any temperature between 80 and 150 degrees. Yes, I will be careful not to start a Spar-B-Que. This opens up the nice possibility of using a slow-cure resin at low temperatures during the glue-up which should reduce the anxiety over getting the thing together and clamped before it becomes unworkable. I know little about epoxy and promoters and hardeners and even less about post-curing. What resources does anyone recommend? I was thinking about parcelling (or is it serving?) it together using a spiral wrap of stretchy nylon cord. I've used a hammer as a tensioner when doing this kind of wrap before and it generates quite a bit of squeeze. Any suggestions? Chad

I was thinking about using the clothespin leeboard idea just as a way of testing alternate boards. With the snap-on on one side and the original on the other, you could compare and contrast. You could easily mess with boards of different sizes and shapes and when you found one you liked, you could attach it in a more permanent manner. Or, you could use a low-aspect, snap-on board for the shallow stuff and switch to the higher aspect board in the deeper spots. Anyway, it sounds like fun, building and trying trial boards. A Piccup is so straightforward it really wouldn't be much work.

Jim Michalak's designs typically use one leeboard, generally on the starboard side. That leaves the other side for you to try lower aspect foils you might build. You might even try something like a side mounted daggerboard trunk that will allow you to mess about with profile, width, depth and for and aft positioning. It would require a little more reinforcing than a Michalak leeboard since you don't have the pivot pin to support it on the port tack. I also saw a clever "clothespin" style leeboard in Woodenboat's supplement on building a cheap,small, sailing skiff. That might work even better on a Piccup than it did on their design since Piccup's sides are quite vertical. The more I think about it the more I like it. I'll try it myself! Chad

Tim Diebert has talked about Dudley Dix's Cape Cutter 19. Well I am enthralled by his rework to 21 feet called the Cape Henry. A great combination of traditional and not. Stick a torqueedo in it and you have a daysailer/weekender that can handle pretty much any kind of water. Heftier than Graham's new Lapwing, but lots more spritely and seaworthy than a Weekender. I would love to build one. Now for money and time. Chad

The Quabbin would be fantastic, but alas the fishing lobby can pull it off, but we sailors just don't have the clout. I'm looking forward to trailering to bigger water. My kids live with their mom in VT so Champlain is an option, Narragansett Bay, Padanaram. 13 feet is too small for more than two. It also is too small for Buzzards Bay when the wind and current are doing their thing. I would appreciate it. I'm going to be in RI this weekend, but have family graduation and party to go to. I'll keep you in the loop. Chad

Ooooohhh! I love sailing in that area. My old stomping grounds. Buzzards Bay is an exciting place to sail and your account makes my heart thump. I can smell the smells, feel the wind, and hear the buoys. Jeff, might I arrange to go sailing with you? I have been wanting to check out a CS20 for a while now. I want to get a feel for it, see how it feels in the wind and seas of an area I know well so I can see if the project after the deck on the house might be a CS-20. I've got 2 kids I want to give the same kind of intro to sailing I had. My Dad built a 20' high-sided sharpie (a lot like an open version of Kirby's Norwalk Island sharpies) when I was a kid and we spent summers sailing it in and around Woods Hole. I remember it fondly but I was only 10 when he sold it. We used my uncle's Bristol 27 after that and then a Cal 40 and then a Cal 34. All in and around Buzzards Bay. Anyway, if this is something you would be open to, Eileen and I could bring my little Lone Star (13 ft plastic boat I can't find the pictures) and do some sailing and take turns getting a ride on your CS. By the way, where do you live? I lived in RI (Providence and Barrington) for 12 years and know the Tiverton, Westport area well. Chad 413-256-7497 Daytime 413-253-0598 Night

Steve and John, Prayers and all my best wishes to you. Life is better when it is cherished. You guys are doing great. Chad

I really like this boat!! The ad says he is building another, slightly larger, one. Does anyone know who Grant Jones is and where we might find out more about his designs? https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=1441758&checked_boats=1441758&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1530&url= If you can't follow the link, just google "leeboard vermont sail" and you'll find it. Chad

http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/junks.html

Ray, Beautiful! I actually was not meaning to imply that the CS boats required athletics to make the most of their speed. Actually, I was intending to suggest that those who enjoy fast would enjoy a CS. All the more so because one doesn't have to push hard to go fast. It does bring up an interesting paradox, one that is noted in the B & B website's comparison of the CS17 and the Bay River Skiff, that the perception of speed is often out of step with actual speed. Thus, a Bay River seems fast, but the Core Sound is faster while seeming more composed. Same could be said for the Cal40 I used to sail. Other boats FELT faster perched on the edge of disaster with their spinnakers threatening to lever the masthead to the waves and their wakes burying their transoms, but we were GOING faster with our chute in complete control and our wake flat out behind us. BTW. I'm gonna have a CS sometime. I just have to find the $$$ and time to build it. The time will come, and when it does the money will be available. Chad

1) You will LOVE almost any decently designed boat you build. THUS, build one that is easy to build, doesn't cost a lot, and goes together fast. This way you can love it sooner. 2) If you build one, you will build another. Unless you discover you hate the whole process, you WILL build another (and another). Thus, don't aim too high! 3) You WILL make mistakes. You will screw up the centerboard trunk, have a lopsided transom, sew baggy sails, put the rig in the wrong place, ... . Thus, pick something easy and something that is easy to "modify" (read fix). Now for some questions: What did you most like about the 420's you sailed? My opinion is that the 420 is a "somewhat" boat: somewhat fast, somewhat responsive, somewhat tippy, somewhat comfortable, ... (you get the idea). If you liked pulling strings, few of the boats I've seen mentioned are for you. If you liked the flying sensation you can get from a fast dinghy (the 420 qualifies) when it is blowing 15, you and the crew are hiked waaaay out and the spray keeps you cool, then the CS's seem like the most fun (I've never sailed one but I take other's word for it). If you like the voyaging part, one of the beamier, more stable, boats is for you. However, unless you are a nut for detail or are a speed freak, I recommend you start very simple. I like Jim Michalak's boats and you can have one up and sailing soonest. There are a wide variety to choose from: The Mayflies for basic good sailing skiffs, Woobo for a surprisingly fast flatty, Piccup for excellent "messing about", and Skat for something a little more traditional (though small). Graham's Spindrifts look wonderful for those who like something smallish but with a bit more polish than Michalak's designs. Build one of these and then plan your next project (and plan to buy a house with a bigger garage).

More and different pictures, no links to the BandB site, but definately the same boat. I wonder if it will sell this time. Got up to $2550 but that wasn't enough. Unfortunately, $2550 is more than I have!

I'd love to bid on it. Might actually save me some money! I have been getting together the resources to build my own CS20 for the past year now. The big impediment is the garage rehabilitation that is necessary. I live in MA and it gets COLD here. Without a garage that can be heated, I can only build when I ought to be sailing. (I've got a Chrysler LS-13 that is fine but not very thrilling. I don't like the masthead rig on the thing. The main has no drive and the jib can't be cleated because it can knock the boat down all by itself.) Anyway, new roof, rebuilding one side of the foundation, concrete floor. Unghh! too many bucks and a lot of work! A nice CS20, ready made and ready to go would get me sailing (fast) when I should be digging new foundations!! Sailing sounds like much more fun!! Chad

Thanks for the replies. I am sorry I was somewhat unclear in the original post. My small experience with fully battened sails have been very positive. I love the accelleration they provide when cracking off the wind and if one allows the clew to rise (and the sail to twist) when the wind is strong, the heeling moment can be kept under control going to windward. I also read a post about choosing masts and was wondering about people's experiences with different mast configurations. Anybody try carbon? tapered vs straight, multiple wall thicknesses, etc? Chad

Has anyone used more roach in the sails? It might be hard to support without full battens and full battens are hard to support without a sail track, and a sail track makes things more complicated and expensive, ... But, a fatter topped sail would provide more thrust at low-med windspeed and would twist off in more air. Chad

Thanks folks. Pretty cool article provided by John. I draw from all this that my experience was typical when using Dynel as a sheath of plywood, that glass is a much better structural reinforcement because of its stiffness and light weight and continues to be a fantastic material these applications, and that kevlar and carbon are specialized materials that are best used where one of their primary qualities (strength, stiffness, and light weight) are of great interest. The comment about the heavy wet-out of the spun fabrics was very interesting. I hadn't really noticed it, but when I think about the dynel application I did, it is right on the mark. Not being a kayak builder, I don't mind as much and like the sandability of the thick layup. As usual, many shades of grey (or white or buff or black in this case). Chad

Garry, I'm glad you mentioned this. I guess those who sail unbalasted race boats learn this scramble. As I was reading all I could think of was, "what are you doing in the water?" Sure there are times when the boat, you, and everthing that isn't tied down go swimming, but I got really good at the scramble over the rail and onto the board. This whole discussion put it in my mind that if I get it together to build a CS20 that I will put grabs on the rails, grabs on the transom, and a step on either side of the transom. The whole idea is to sense when you have overdone it, toss the sheets, scramble onto the rail and get it back up as fast as possible. Also, I was wondering why the side decks are so narrow. While there is some sacrifice in interior width, another 4" of deck would make a nicer place for large people like me and would decrease the likelyhood of big dollops of water in the cockpit. I suppose moving each of the seat sides in 4" might make it difficult to fit my size 12s between the lockers and the trunk. Hmmm.

Many years ago I had a great experience with Dynel as a sheath over the abused cold-molded hull of a Jet 14. Worked like a charm. I wasn't looking for strength, just a fair and abrasion resistant coating over a western red cedar hull. I don't really know the relative merits/deficits of these fabrics except that Glass offers the least stretch. What are people's opinions about Where, When, and How to use these fabrics? Chad