Starting a Birder 2 - question re fiberglassing

[jtrobins]

Hi, I'm new to the forum and B&B yacht designs. I have my birder 2 plans and am ready to get started. This is my 3rd kayak, the previous 2 were kits from CLC (a Mill Creek and Chesapeake). This will be my first attempt from plans.

I will be using Okoume plywood, found a local source with reasonable prices. Reviewing the plans I was surprised that it does not call for fiberglass on the hull, just epoxy coating. I'm only surprised since the CLC boats do. Is all that fiberglassing overkill? Is the weight savings from not fiberglassing signficiant or is it mainly a cost consideration? I assume the non-glassed hulls require more attention to maintenance. I'm considering glassing with 4, rather than 6 oz glass as a compromise, but if its not needed at all I'd be happy to skip it altogether. Your advice appreciated.

Thanks

Jim

[Charlie Jones]

I'm currently underway with a pair of Birders, and I've also built a Mill Creek 16.5.

One difference is the way the boats are put together, I would think.

But for us, in our waters, I intend to add a layer of 4 oz cloth on the bottoms. We have lots of oyster shells and oyster reefs here and we both tend to take the boats into some gnarly waters, so we both want the protection of the glass. Shouldn't add THAT much weight if you use the lighter glass.

But for regular paddling, in clear waters, you really don't NEED the glass.

[jtrobins]

Thanks for the advice! We paddle in calm water, salt marshes and ponds, but we do beach the boats a lot so some glass on bottom makes sense.

Are you building just birders or the birder 2? The MC 16.5 was my alternative boat to the birder 2, but I had already built a MC and wanted to try something different.

Jim

[Charlie Jones]

Just the Birders- the 13 footers. One for each of us.

Pics posted on this board here-

http://www.messing-about.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=41576#41576

[edt]

Hi,

I have built a birder 2. Its been down to Floridia, out west to Sault Saint Marie, and east to Maine. It also spends time in the local waters around Montreal. I did not glass the bottom. I did extend the skeg to make a 1x1 'keel' upon which I have put an epoxy/graphite mix - this makes it easy to get the boat up onto a dock... I have not missed glass on the bottom - I have had a few scratches to fix but nothing serious in three seasons.

If I built again I would make every effort to keep the boat as light as possible. IMHO even though glassing the bottom might make the boat a little more durable its questionable if the added weight is worth it.

Ed

[Charlie Jones]

As I said- depending one where you are going to use the boat. OUr shallow waters around here are GNARLY!!

I glassed our Birders on the bottom and sides. Mine got 10 oz on the "football" and 4 oz on the sides. Laura's got 6 oz "football" and 4 oz sides.

Before glassing the two boats weighed 21 and 20 pounds respectively . After glassing, with doublers but without decks, hers is 24 pounds and mine is 26. So it added between 4 and 5 pounds to glass them. WELL worth it for around here.

Waiting for an order of boat nails to arrive so I can put the decks on them. Got the keels cut today, but I'm really debating whether or not to add them. HAVE to do it before decking or I can't get to the bottom for the screws.

[Jim Robinson]

You are making rapid progress on those. I have the "butterfly" glued up both sides, tommorrow I will attempt to fold it into shape.

I'll probably compromise and go with 4oz on the bottom and hull. On my clc kayaks I did 6 oz, at least it appeared to be that to me, on the hull and and 4 oz on the deck. After 2 seasons they are scratched but no scratch has penetrated to the plywood.

In retrospect those kits are probably overkill, the inside of the cockpit is glassed as well!

[Jim Robinson]

You are making rapid progress on those. I have the "butterfly" glued up both sides, tommorrow I will attempt to fold it into shape.

I'll probably compromise and go with 4oz on the bottom and hull. On my clc kayaks I did 6 oz, at least it appeared to be that to me, on the hull and and 4 oz on the deck. After 2 seasons they are scratched but no scratch has penetrated to the plywood.

In retrospect those kits are probably overkill, the inside of the cockpit is glassed as well!

[Charlie Jones]

Just take your time folding it- fold a bit, then let it rest- then fold some more. I think I rushed and that's what caused the one break.

I'm toying with the idea of glassing just the doubler area with 4 oz, just where seat and feet will go. Haven't really decided as yet.

I've HAD to hurry on these. I had a Core Sound 20 to start as soon as my shop floor was clear. The Birders have now moved outside and the CS20 is underway.

Birder work is now "after work" stuff.

I"ll be posting CS 20 pics tomorrow I think

[edt]

Charlie,

Its nice to see an comment that quantifies the answer. With a birder 2 that I often manhandle myself, the extra pounds would not be appriecated... But then I do not have the same types of bottoms to deal with. The extended skeg that I added is very helpfull when you want to get the boat up onto a dock. Its funny to see the reactions of people when I just pull a wooden boat up onto the dock - they all expect it will be scratched... The 1x1 'keel' with graphite epoxy on it really works well.

Just got back from a fun paddle. It was a bit rough. I often had water over the bow. The combings did there job and effectivily kept the cockpit dry. My arms know they had a good workout.

Ed