Alternate "experimental" rigging

[mrthethird]

I have been kicking around the idea of a double headsail arrangement, in lue of a single jib, on my Weekender. Not as a replacement rigging, but as a secondary, "experimental" rigging. The stay sail would hank to a forestay run from it's typical location on the mast, to the eyebolt for the clubfoot (which I would remove). The forward sail would be a 130-140 genoa on a furler. I know opinions will vary about whether or not this is an acceptable rigging, and those opinions are welcome, but not my questions.

The questions are:

About where and how do I connect the genoa stay to the mast? Do I need to increase the height of the mast to accommodate the arrangement? If so, how do I figure out how much?

Is repositioning the forestay compromising the stability of the mast too much? Will the genoa furler be enough help in this regard?

Will I need to modify the bowsprit?

Any opinions are welcome.

[Craig]

The mast height needs to go up the same amount or more than the distance from the stay sail eyelet to the lapper mount. You need a bit longer bowsprit to accomadate the lapper moving past the stay sail. On my boat I have extended the sprit by ~48" and the top mast is ~70" above the top of the main mast with suitable new fore stay mounting installed. PAR recommended to me not to go so big with the cutter rig. If I recall he said to to stay below 120% with the new sail if I was going to use both at once. After looking at some Class A Friendships and other cutters most have the headsail covering about 75% of the foretriangle when flying cutter rigged. For the big lapper I will hank a 120 or 130 on the stay sail shroud. I have also added whisker stays to the extended bowsprit to control the lateral effects of setting the fore sail flying. I tried to taper the fore sprit by about 60% using laminated DF 2x4s and have broken it already before the first sail was raised. (It did have a preexisting flaw) Maintain the same strength all the way out. If you use an additional top mast you may need after stays for it depending on how you make it and how stiff it is. Lots of engineering to this mod. It is not trivial if it is to work correctly. A 130 lapper would give nearly the same extra drive but wouldn't look half as pretty.

[PAR]

Twin headsails are cute, but not particularly practical on a boat as small as Weekender. A few have done it. Of those that I know of, some have a longer sprit, others taller rigs and some have a stock size rig.

You can't furl a 140 into a working jib size and be happy with the shape and windage of the partly furled sail. A 130 can be twisted down to a 100, but not much more before you loose too much shape and pickup too much drag from the bundle around the headstay.

On a larger boat, where lugging a 100 pound sack of sail to the foredeck and hanking it on, to deal with changing wind strengths, just to remove it and drag another heavy sail to the bow an hour later, a furler makes much logic. A larger boat will have sufficient room between the headstay and babystay to permit the jib to pass around during tacks. Smaller boats will have a smaller gap between the two stays and this makes passing the clew of the jib through the gap more difficult, usually requiring a person to "walk 'er through" while on the foredeck during the tack.

There is no advantage to twin headsails, in fact they will limit the pointing ability of the boat somewhat, because of additional sheeting angles required with three sails instead of two. Then of course is some additional complication to the rig in stays, halyards, sheets, fairleads, etc., but they do look cool.

As far as strains on the mast, I don't think the Weekender rig is jeopardy of falling over. It's quite a bit over size and more then strong enough. The baby stay can attach at the same point the headstay does on the mast (coolest looking), but a better location (produces a wider gap) would be a few feet below this point. The ideal setup for twin headstays is to have them parallel to each other. You shouldn't have to move your headstay, just install the new baby stay (inner stay), blocks and line for the halyard. Many twin setups have the staysail boomed and the jib free. This arrangement has some advantages over double sheeted headsails. The staysail is self tending on the boom so you only have to worry about getting the jib around the baby stay in tacks. It should be a real boom, not a club with it's gooseneck very close to the staysail's tack. A topping lift for this boom is also a good idea (like all booms). A pelican hook is sometimes used at the deck of the baby stay, so it can be easily released and tied to the mast when just the jib is being used.

If you decide you want to move the headstay for some reason, then rework the sail plan to keep your center of effort in approximately the same location vertically. You can toss off the balance of the sail plan pretty easily if you move the CE very far forward or aft of it's current position.

[mrthethird]

The important note is that I will be launching the boat with the standard rigging. Since the rigging seems to be somewhat inexpensive, I thought I would play around with it a bit, and see what happens. I had planned on all-or-nothing for the furled jib, just a way to get it out of the wind if I needed to. I had no intention of using it as a reefing system.

Thanks for the great input and ideas. The topsail is on the list as well, but not for a while, yet. But it does look way cool....

[Craig]

Thetre is a shot of the sprit in here as well as photos on my bck yard. I didn't have the top mast on.

http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/catboat/index.cgi/read/14487

[Barry Pyeatt]

Brit,

I've been sailing on Capt. Jake's Fire Escape for the last couple years. He has a lapper installed on a luffwire furling system that sits just behind the forestay. It works beautifully! He is now adding a second staysail to use when the winds pick up and he needs to reef down the main and furl the lapper. It is smaller than the standard jib and is on a luffwire also. It attaches to the clubfoot eye on the standard rig. His purpose is not to use both because there simply isn't enough room to have the lapper clear the staysail when tacking. That is the big issue with two sails in such a small area. Yes, they do it on Frienships. But then they are more than twice the length of a Weekender too.

I'm doing a little different with mine. I extended the length of the bowsprit by 18" and added a bow pulpit so I can get to the furling spool if need be. I have a larger 125 genoa that I will use on the furling system which mounts just behind the forestay. With the extended bowsprit, the clew of the Genoa is just back to about the forward shroud. My mast is also taller by 18" to allow for the extra length of the bowsprit. I can furl it and raise the standard jib in its stock location on a separate luffwire furling system. I can then use it with a clubfoot if single handing or use separate sheets for it as well. I can lower the furled genoa and secure it along the deck with a couple straps and not have the windage in heavier winds. Fly the stock jib with the main reefed down a bit or just go on a reefed main alone.

I also have in the works a smaller storm sail that will be able to be raised on its own luffwire system with the standard jib halyard if need be.

My intent is not to use multiple head sails at one time, it is to give me more flexibility in the varied conditions we have here in Puget Sound Country and on the larger lakes around here. There simply isn't enough room for clearance with a large headsail and a staysail on a Weekender. It really needs about 48" of separation between the luffs of the two sails for it to be managed.

The Weekender with a stock configuration will be pretty nicely balanced with a Lapper and the main. After a couple years of working with various sail plans I really don't see any advantage to having more of a headsail than a Lapper size. You will be happy with the performance most likely and ease of sailing with it.

One other point that is a major one on a Weekender or Vacationer. The shrouds are mounted on the hull sides. Not inboard on the cabin. Rigging for a Genoa is a lot more of a challenge because the Genoa will be rubbing on the shrouds and turnbuckles all the time. When you want to sheet down the Genoa and flatten it for working upwind, it will always be held outboard unless you change the rigging for just that purpose. Working down wind you would want a Whisker pole to get that clew outboard as far as possible under light air to grab as much wind as possible. With a Lapper it is a lot easier to rig than with a Genoa. Just too much sail there with outboard shrouds to contend with.

But it is your rig and it is fun to experiment. But, I would recommend that you give it a good try with the stock rig and then maybe make up a Lapper out of a Polysail kit and give it a try. I think you will be more than happy to just use these two headsails interchangably, depending upon wind conditions. Then if you think you need more headsail, make up a Genoa out of a Polysail kit before investing in a more expensive option. 8)

[Mike Pennington]

I have to agree with what was said above by all. I have been playing with the furler for a few seasons now. To big of a sail and it not only looks like yuk, but causes a drag when furled. Maybe if I invested in a production system it would be better.

The manual furling system, I've used spools and pvc four-ways has three extra lines into the cockpit, that can be a pain too. I have made three sails, the first seems to be the best to handle, it was the smaller of the three. The second was too large, the third is okay being somewhere in the middle for size, still looks like yuk up forward when furled.

The outer and inner stays are about two feet apart, I would like to increase the length of the bowsprit to increase this distance. I believe the furling system would work better and the new sail I would cut might work a bit better as well. I also like Craig's thought of wisker stays, my slimmed down 4x4 has held up so far, but I am playing with a lot of sail and extending the sprit would cause more stress.

I do keep a whisker pole for down wind, but without crew I can't use it.

I would also like to take a closer look at Jake's Luff wire furling system. I am particularly interested in how it looks under sail. How it is made, and how he gets it tight enough to keep from sagging?

Now what have I noticed by adding the furling sail? A tad more speed, :wink: and maybe a tad more pointing ability. The Big Lake Yacht Club with their plastic boats have boo'ed me, when I passed them up and came back to lap them. On a light winded day.

Now for all the effort, is it still worth it? If I can tighten the sail up on the stay so it looks better, maybe. And I would like to buy one of those fancy brass manual furlers sold by that down under outfit, which would allow me to drop the foot of the sail lower to the deck.

[Dave R1]

Brit, prior to launching my Weekender I thought I would go with a cutter rig and to that end I added some length to both the mast and bowsprit. After sailing the boat with just the stock jib, I've decided the rig is fine as is. Even with the added length to the bowsprit a Genny set like you're talking would be hard to tack unless you remove the inner head sail altogether.

Besides, with the peak and throat halyards lead aft and port and starboard jib sheets in use, there's plenty of lines already to deal with.

I do have a roller furler which works great especially with the longer bowsprit. I would highly recommend that.

With the added height of the mast I raised the boom up so I don't have to duck under it when tacking. It also allowed me to spread the hardware at the top out a bit. Shrouds clear the jaws better and the angle on the peak halyard is more efficient. So adding the height was still a good thing in my opinion.