Roller furling revistied (Long)

[Mike Pennington]

I think Barry really on to something, I have experienced most of the problems discussed and over came them. This is my old set up, the two stays are further apart now and the drum/sail is much lower.

The main thing is to keep tension on the manual furling line and you won't have any problems. I have had a clamp up top slip and lost the rig over the side once. Thus the inner stay was handy that day.

I have also added a few fairleads and moved the chain forward. The extended bow box behind the trail boards gives me a place to put my big feet if I ever have to get out there again.

I think I may eventually buy one of those furling drums though.

After I finish my spring refit.

[capt jake]

Sorry if I haven't read this thread thoughouly through! I do recall now that Paul stated it would be the jib halyard that would provide the tension to the whole mess.

I will throw my prototype drum in Fire Escape and let you look at it once again.

If nothing else, I think I made a pretty good furling drum, though it only holds down paper at present.

[Barry Pyeatt]

Capt. Jake,

Where did you get the Harken Swivel for the system? The dealers that I've contacted tell me it is only available as a part of their #432 Small Boat Furling system.

That entire system costs about $160 from them and consists of their roller drum and the top swivel. If the top swivel is available separately and is only about $18-20 then that takes care of the major concern.

These systems do use the jib halyard to adjust tension on the forestay. That can be done with the Weekenders and the system I was trying to set up, but I'm going to be setting up a little longer bowsprit and having the jib halyard utilized for the smaller staysail or stormsail. This would be set at the existing eye for the clubfoot and an additional eye for a shorter clubfoot would be installed.

[capt jake]

The swivels weren't designed for the furling system. They are swivels with a clevis on each end. I just recently returned them as i figured I would never get to the furling system. They were not ball bearing either.

Paul's idea, was indeed to use the halyard to adjust the tenison. The was some concern about tension, as too much may not let the swivels do their thing. The other was to make a device to keep the end of the halyard from twisting while furling. I can't describe it in words, but i saw something at last year's fair that may work.

It was either teh RF120 or the RF 173 in the Ronstan catologue. Here is a PDF link, that i hope will work for you. Scroll to the mid section of the page.

http://www.ronstan.com.au/catalogue/A030-033,038-040+F156,157.pdf

[Ken]

Barry,

Forgive me if I'm dense here but would appreciate it if you could clarify how the sewn-in wire is attached so that it swivels with the roller. I understand that the faucet cap is welded to the swivel, but how and where is the cable secured to the unit so that turns with the spool? Sure appreciate all your research and thought on this as welll as your willingness to share and take the time to post it also.

Ken

[Barry Pyeatt]

No Problem Ken,

The luff wire feeds thru the center of the hub and exits the side of the adaptor before the swivel. (The drum I have has an exit hole in the drum already that could be utilized.) Then it is attached to the upper eye of the swivel with a wire clamp. The upper eye turns with the drum so the entire luff wire will rotate with the drum provided that the luff wire is stiff enough that it doesn't just twist. If you are getting your sail from a sailmaker they will provide the luff wire in the sail and it will be suitable for furling. That is if you specify that when you order it. If you are making your own sail then you will need to find some 1/8" stiff stainless wire for the luff.

I'm checking on several sources for that as well.

[Ken]

Thanks for that clarification, Barry. The lightbulb went on for me now. Just a thought - 1/8" SS wire is heavy enough not to just twist?

[Barry Pyeatt]

You could go to 3/16, but there are various grades of Stainless wire and I don't know which one is the most appropriate as yet. I was told that once the wire was under tension and had been sewn into the luff of the sail, that it would be entirely adequate. The people that had used the double faced carpet tape to secure it in the luff also reported that they didn't have a problem with twisting of the wire. The drum turns and the sail rolled up.

A couple of them used vinyl coated Stainless wire and it worked fine for them with their PolySail Tarp sails. So maybe the same wire used for the shrouds may be just fine.

[Dave R1]

Ken, for what it's worth, I've been looking at the Harken site for info on furrling setups. Their small boat furlers are set up for 1/8" wire.

I've been trying to figure out if I could afford to just buy the real parts to add a furler to my boat. I'm thinking right now my time is worth enough that I would rather not fool with making something up from scratch.

[capt jake]

Paul and I were contemplating 1/8" SS wire. It would run through the drum and an eye would be fashioned with 2 nycro-press fittings. The fittings would in turn, be let back into the drum and affixed with a few set screws.

On the top side of the drum, there would be a small pad eye to which a quick link would run through. The quick link then attaches to a grommet in the sail. This is just to provide the initial 'push' to get the sail to start rolling.

Barry, I have the proto-type drum in the boat (not the one I posted pictures of a long time ago, a newer version). I will have to show you next week. Bummer that it looks like rain most of the week! Bring a PFD if you have one. Otherwise you will be sporting one of those orange circa 50's things! :)

[capt jake]

Bump!! Any more creative thoughts on this issue?? I had one issue that might have partly been avoided had I had roller furling.

Gave some thought to setting the turnbuckle inside the drum, and securing it with set screws. I would have to double nut the turnbuckle, but at least I would have an adjustment point for tension.

I would like to convert my current dacron sail to this aplication. I envision removing the piston hank grommets and sewing in the bolt rope.

Now, which SS cable, I can't recall the exact 'name' of each type, but basically there is a very flexible and a not so flexible. I used the flexible stuff for all of the shrouds and forestay, I wonder if it would be more prone to twisting???

[capt jake]

I just chatted with a locl sail maker about this system. She says it has been done; and I will take the jib and forestay to her tommorrow for a little more insight.

Meanwhile; Barry!! I need to know where you found those SS Swivels. I can't locate them locally, bummer.

[capt jake]

Well I sent the sail off to the sail maker to have the forestay sewn into the jib. Bascally the same concept as Barry has outlined. Homemade Drum made out of a solid nylon spindle with UHMW caps for teh end of the drum. All drilled, tapped and screwed in place with SS fasteners.

I found the swivels at Boaters World, and they didn't have a clew what they were. I ddin't eaiter, but it turns out they are swivels for roller furling on small boats. I got them each for $26/ea. SS and ball bearing.

I also changed out the turnbuckle for a cam adjusting thingamabob. It will be much easier to clip the forestay and then 'cam' it into place. I will no doubt remove the jiba halyard.

I should have teh sail back in about 10 days (bummer); after taht i will let you know how it goes.

BTW, I have had the drum done for almost two years contemplating this. Iam glad it re-surfaced.

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[capt jake]

Hey, I got to thinking; instead of turning the forestay into the furler, why not leave the forestay and place another set of eyes aft of the forestay to utilize?? Having the furler behind the stay will not interfer with the furling. This set you would still allow the use of the halyard to add to the versatility of the jib.

Thoughts??

[Barry Pyeatt]

Agreed, leaving the forestay in place will add significantly to the versatility and allow you to fly a smaller (standard?) jib or even smaller storm sail. It would also allow you on occasion to have a Genoa if you decided that you needed/desired something larger than the Lapper.

The only issue that I see is that you are tensioning the forestay as well as the stay in the roller. The balance there may get tricky on occasion and finding a good balance between them and the main stays could get interesting as the wind freshens :shock: .

That balance has yet to be determined on your boat as you have only had it out in extremely light air thus far. So there really hasn't been any need to adjust it or try to trim it for best performance as yet.

But.... that day will come. :wink:

[capt jake]

Good point Barry. Though I don't think I will be able to overcome the forestay tension with a halyard (1:1) alone. I hope to have teh sail back later this week, then I can play with it a bit.

[Fintan Murphy]

I couldn't find a drum for my new system, as all electrical cable now comes in cardboard drums. I guessed straight away that these wouldn't last too long in a marine environment

I came up with another solution. If you can get your hands on a printer ribbon for one of the large highspeed dot matrix printers (e.g. Printronix), they will do the job. They are usually used by finance or accountancy firms.

The spool is about 4 inches in diameter and has a large central hole, where it sits on the printers ribbon axel. The inside diameter is about 1.5 inches.

I made up a wooden plug (using a holecutter) and epoxied it in place. Next I through-bolted two fittings (can't remember the name, but they might be called pad-eyes), one either side of the wooden plug. On one I attached the swivel clip, and the forestay is clamped on the other.

In other words, if you can't get a spool, and the associated plastic parts in the original (brilliant) setup, try and get a printer spool and wooden plug.

[capt jake]

Well, I have it up and running in less than 4 hours from the sail maker. I have it rigged to the forestay at present, and probably will leave it there.

I simply ran the line for teh spool through the club-foot eye and it is in the perfect location (on my boat) to wind the line around teh spool. :)

I am not really happy with the twist in the cable though. I have the flexible cable (more strands), I think that the stiffer cable would work better (lees strands).

All in all, I am pretty happy with the set-up. I am anxious to try it out soon (Joel??? ;) ).

I must remind you that this set-up is for furling only, not reefing!! I may try it in a reefing situation, but I really doubt it will work well (as the twist in the line does not provide uniform tension upon hee luff).

So far it is really great, though the addition of the drum pushed the jib farther aft than expected, but I don't really see that as a problem. Amazing how the geometry works; moving the sail up on hte luff by about 4 inches moved the sail aft by about 8+. :shock:

Photos to come, be patient.

Joel, Fridays optional???