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The top half of the west side of Vermont, near where I live, abuts Lake Champlain, thus "The West Coast". About 100 miles long and up to 12 miles wide, plenty of room for Princess. Plus canal access to NYC, Montreal, Erie Canal, etc., I won't live long enough to explore it all. Unfortunately all frozen over at the moment (and below zero at the moment, no thaw in sight). Did the ICW from Southport NC to Lake Champlain 2 years ago, nice way to spend a month (not on Princess). Mid-Coast of Maine and Mystic about 6 hours away, Chesapeake and NC sounds within a day's drive. Lots of possibilities. Joel

I live on Vermont's west coast, and I have the P22 that Chick built. If you find youself in the area (awesome skiing at the moment) get in touch, and you can at least sit on one, indoors. Joel

Thanks David, I may take you up on that sailing offer. Went to law school in Portland a lifetime ago and have sailed those waters some. Donna Urie (Safford) lives just down the road from me. I'm distantly related to her husband. I was up by their old place yesterday looking at a storage space. Small world.

I think the tabernacle problems may stem from all the end and edge grain exposed on the upper end of the structure, combined with twisting, wracking forces imposed by the mast. I suspect that over the years, the end grain was not adequately sealed, water penetrated the end grain, and wracking forces caused some raising of some edge grain that ran close to the surface. Water got into the edge grain as well, weakend the wood, which wracked further, etc etc. Damage extends down the tabernacle to a few inches under the deck. Just guessing about the above, but bottom line is one side of the forward tabernacle is a mess, you can peel it apart with your hands. The aft one looks ok, but needs sealing and refinishing. It is possible that a prior owner replaced one side of the aft tabernacle, as the finish and wood appearance varies somewhat; if so, they did a pretty clean job of it. Obviously the tabernacles come under a fair amount of stress. Clear grained, high quality strong wood, well sealed and maintained, and good workmanship, and following Graham's plans closely, should work fine. I have plans for another boat of this size, with a tabernacle. It call for a stainless steel fabrication. I suppose that would be an option, if you have the skills, or don't mind paying (probably a lot) to have someone else build it.

Are you referring to the tabernacle design now provded for the P22, or for the Mk2-3? Since I need to rebuild the tabernacle, and since Graham's new tabernacle design is apparently much better, I'd be interested in seeing how the new ones are designed, especially if its for the P22, and all other related componants are unchanged. I think I have two options; cut it out at deck and keelson and replace entirely, or cut halfway between deck and keelson, replace upper half, with plates or butts at the joint of sufficient strength to make it as strong as new. The latter would be easier, as the base appears to be below the top of a watertight compartment, which I would have to cut out to get at the base. Haven't fully evaluated this yet.

From 22' she looks pretty good. The attached photo was taken last week. Have to get closer to see problems with the tabernacle and trim. Nothing I can't fix, hopefully. Can't wait to dance with her!

The original Princess 22, "Princess", built by Chick Ludwig about 14 years ago, has a new home in northern Vermont. I purchased her last Friday in Baltimore, Md., and towed her home to Jeffersonville, Vt. on Saturday. She has a nice trailer, and towed beautifully behind an F150 rental truck.. I purchased plans for the Princess 22 about 10 years ago, and even drove to Chick's house, while on a trip to NC, and looked at Princess. But after studying the plans and considering my skills, work space, family and work obligations, and bank account, I decided it was too big a project for me to realistically take on. I got a deal on a professionally built Caledonia yawl, which we have enjoyed for 10 years, sailing mostly on Lake Champlain, but also Lake George, smaller lakes of northern Vermont, and the coast of Maine. Sailed on a CS20 in Maine at the Small Reach Regatta about 5 years ago, met Graham (with his EC22). A few years ago I built a SkiffAmerica 20 outboard (with small cabin), which we have also enjoyed cruising in. But the motorboat experience confirmed that I'd really rather be sailing, but on a boat with a cabin. So when Princess came on the market, needing a lot of work, but at a relatively modest price, I took the plunge, with my wonderful wife's blessing. Princess has a newer motor and trailer, and the sails look quite good. She needs a new main tabernacle, repair or replacement of the toe rails, grab rails, some seat hatches, the cabin hatchcover, and some of the hardware. Most every surface needs refinishing (most varnish was painted over). Structurally she appears solid. So she is not the beautiful young princess you see on the web page, but with a substantial makeover she can be the belle of the ball once again. I'm looking for nearby indoor storage, and hope to work on her some over the winter and spring, as time and conditons permit. Storage will not be heated, so I'll be doing well to be in the water by July. Still, I am very excited and honored to be able to have such a special boat. Chick did an excellent job building her, so she should have a productive middle age, despite having fallen on somewhat hard times. If I can figure out how to upload photos I'll post some, showing current condition. Wish I could make it to the messabout this weekend, but it's not possible this year. I helped bring a boat up the ICW to Vt. 2 years ago, we passed thru the Oriental, NC area, and would love to revisit, and especially to see the B&B fleet and owners, especially the CSmk3's. Joel Page Jeffersonville, Vt.

Thanks Doug for you patience and response. I'll check the WCTS site to see if I can find some photos. I'm looking forward to seeing more photos in the weeks to come as the final details come together, and "the means of propulsion" are raised. Joel

Still wish I'd been there to see the CS20, (and the SA20 as well!) Would love to see a profile photo of your boat, that's the one angle you can't get in the shop. And I could have picked your brain for thoughts on battary placement, now that the cooler/step occupies that spot. And oar storage. And transom top/oar storage interface. And motor mount options/rudder blade clearance. And slot cover options. And hardware placement. And mizzen mast stepping for those with back issues. And whether that is a storage area I'm seeing in the CAD drawing at the foot of the berths. And on and on... (The burden of building a prototype, you've been great about sharing the building process, and patient dealing with the never-ending stream of questions!) Interesting about your SA20 experience. Mine has some handling quirks, like most boats, but pounding is not too noticable, except directly into a chop of about 12". Angle it a bit, or shift weight to engage a chine, and that pretty much disappears. And of course, I adjust my speed to conditions. Because pounding gets old real fast. Joel

Doug and Dale, I'd love to see some photos of the boat at Cedar Key! Wish I could have been there to get the tour with Dale! Joel

I made the handrails on the cabin top of oak, if that's what you were referring to. My earlier post pertained to the rub rails. All the half round trim is cherry. All wood was cut locally in northern Vermont, which was kind of nice. Joel

Glued up in two laminations to accept all the curves. The inner lamination is ash, outer is oak. Joel

I think a rubrail following the shear would both provide necessary protection, and enhance the shear. Half-round trimming the cabin top would complement the rubrail and also provide protection. My SkiffAmerica 20 has a somewhat similar profile, and the sweeping rubrail is both attractive and protective. It also adds considerable strength. I've attached a photo of my SA20 (or tried to, we'll see how this works), which gives some idea what I'm talking about. Joel

Thanks Graham, I wasn't aware mast kits were available, or that the tabernacle was pre-assembled. I appreciate the lengths you are going to in order to make it possible for amature builders to construct boats where the hull is true and solid, and the rig properly aligned and functioning as designed. Greatly increases my confidence and willingness to take on a big project. Joel

That is a great piece on building the centerboard. Is Alan going to be available to build CSMk3 boards? This is an important and rather tricky part to build well, to achieve optimal strength and durability and performance and no vibration/hum. I could do it, though dealing with pouring lead is not in my comfort zone. I wouldn't mind paying for a proven board made by someone else for a reasonable price, just as I expect to pay for excellent sails made by someone else. In that vein, are mast extrusions available thru B&B? I see many posts from builders who have difficulty locating the specified extrusions in their local area. The sails B&B provides are presumably optimized for the specified mast extrusions. It would be nice if masts could be purchased as another option with the kit. As long as we're paying for shipping a kit, what are a few more pounds...? Great work Doug, I hope to see photos of your boat at Cedar Key, wish I could be there! Joel

Graham, thanks for the explanation, makes perfect sense to bring the bolt in thru the bulkhead. I looked at the main tabernacle design on my Princess plans, and noticed the nut was on the aft side, so I kinda figured you might do that. My reach, with pelvis pressed against a bulkhead, is nearly 40", so I should be able to reach bow cleats, anchor launcher, etc, from forward end of slot. Chest against bulkhead I can grasp horizontally at nearly 26", so that 18" works in that position as well. I was wondering about line leads with a full-length slot, sounds like you have that covered. Everything seems pretty well dialed in on these boats. Now, about those oar storage coamings, that could get interesting....... Joel

Doug, is there any structural or other reason why the slot could not be carried forward all the way to the forward bulkhead (which is how my SA20 is set up)? Seems like that would permit easier access to the tabernacle bolt and the anchor/bow lines. Sorry to pester you with questions, but I (and I'm sure others) am building this in my mind along with you, your photos have been great and pretty well lay the process out. But its always hard to visualize from photos, without actual dimensions or people in place, what the ergonomics (can't think of a better term) are that affect sitting, standing, reaching, crawling etc on a small boat. Anyway, looks great so far! Joel

Looks real good Doug! Hard to tell from the pics whether the slot goes all the way forward to (nearly) the forward end of the cabin-top, or if it stops a couple feet short. Is the length of the slot, relative to the length of the cabin sole, what you were referring to when discussing battery box concerns? Or the height from the bridge deck to the sole (appears to be about 2'). Or foot room when sitting on the berth in the cabin. (Or all the above?). Good luck with the turn-over! Joel

Graham, your solution seems brilliant in its simplicity. My SA20 uses coated Sunbrella for the hatch cover, and has never leaked a drop. My bimini is regular Sunbrella, with seams, and those leak a bit despite repeated efforts to seal the seams. Do you envision a flap on the forward end with a few snaps? Bungee around the tabernacle? The forward end needs to be well secured when trailering (hurricane force headwind!). Joel

Thanks Graham. Do the 17 and 20 mk3 have a dedicated space for a battery, like a Group 24 deep cycle, and a small electric panel? Joel

Graham, what differences would I notice between the 17 and 20 mk3? I understand that overall there is a 3' difference in length, and about 8" (?) difference in width. How does that translate in the cabin? For instance, is there still room for the portapotti in the 17? Can a 6 footer stretch out on the berth? For solo or two-up cruising, is anything important really sacrificed with the 17? Joel

On my SA20 I have a canvas (Sunbrella) snap-on top, and snap-on "door", with zip-down window, (on both ends of the cabin), with mosquito netting, etc. It was professionally done, and not cheap, by the way. (cabin top, doors, berth cushions, and large bimini cost over $2500). Canvas works great when the boat lives on a trailer in the barn, or when there's someone on it in when in the water. Maybe not so good if left on a mooring or dock unattended. Keep in mind, that when you go with canvas for slot top and/or doors, you sacrifice security. Kinda like having a convertible. You can't leave valuables inside and assume they'll be there when you return. For what I do and where I live that's not been an issue, but for some it may be. A secure alternative might be a traditional (but short) sliding hatch, with a hinged hatch just aft of the tabernacle, and dropboards. Or hinged hatches fore and aft. Hatches are more complicated to build, and there's less light and space, but may be a viable alternative if you want to be able to lock it up, or if a slot top does not appeal to you. Hatches might also be a good choice if you don't do canvas work and don't want to pay for it. In any event, I can't wait to see how this prototype turns out! Joel

Chick, thanks for the explanation about the "big" sails. I just re-read the Small Boats article on the CS, and looking closely at the sail plan diagram I noticed a tracing for "roach sail". I assume that is the "big" sail, using the battens to achieve roach. I have searched the B&B site, and this forum, for a thread that details how you "jiffy reef" a sprit rig, and I'm not finding much. On the CS20 mk3, where getting forward to the main mast may be awkward unless you open the slot (thus exposing the interior to rain/spray), having an efficient reefing system that you can operate from the cockpit seems especially important. Is that feasible? Do you have to loosen the snotter as well? That appears to be quite high up the main mast, how are adjustments made without getting up into the bow? On your mk2 you installed a clever arch on the cabin top with most of the mast line controls led thru. That wouldn't work so well on a cabin top with a slot running all the way forward, but clever minds can always figure out ways to make these systems work. I'm a big fan of reefing, one thing I love about my Caledonia Yawl is how the mizzen holds her head to wind so that you can reef that big lugsail before things get ugly. I have her set up so reefing is a cinch. She sails much better with one or two reefs, than when you have to pinch, hike and luff the main in gusts. A good reefing system is a thing of beauty indeed, not to mention an important safety feature! So give me lots of sail area, a seaworthy hull, and a good reefing system, and we have the best of all worlds. Joel

Doug, congratulations on finishing the EC. I watched the EC13 video last night, and was exhausted just watching and imagining! What a great experience that must be! On the slot - cars and tracks sounds slick, like an old Renault I had with a huge fabric sunroof. Can't remember how it kept the water out, but it never leaked a drop. One of the great things about these boats is how they encourage/require individual problem-solving, so each boat comes out as the unique reflection of it's builders creative energies. I imagine the first few boats will have variations, and over time certain solutions will become preferred. Like Graham I tend towards the minimalist/KISS approach, (how does water ballast fit into that?). The slot is a great KISS contradiction: on the one hand it seems like a simple way of greatly expanding the sense of space in a small cabin, enabling access to the bow, gaining headroom. On the other had, the details of building the enclosure may be a lot more complicated, or at least busy, than a traditional hatch. On a different subject, Chick mentioned that he had the "big" sails, which I assume means big roach, full upper battens. The CS20 I sailed, and most that I have seen pictured, did not have the big sails. I have not seen the sail plan options mentioned in the specs or the forums. Have you decided which to go with, and if so, what are the pro's/cons? Joel

I'm very excited about the CS20 mk3. I have a Caledonia Yawl which I love, but I want a small cabin like the Skiff America 20, which I also have. When I built the SA20 there were choices to be made about how the cabin top would be designed. I went with the suggested pvc framework with snap-on cover, which has worked very well. The walk-thru feature is awesome, in good weather, but it takes a couple minutes to assemble/snap or the reverse. If I need to get to the bow quickly, and the cover is on, I duck under and squeeze thru the forward hatch/bulkhead. In the CS20 mk3 there is no forward hatch. Not sure if you can stand on the bridge deck and reach forward to the forward snaps. If not, getting forward quickly will require devising a system for unsnapping those forward snaps from inside. Which may not be easy. Bottom line, you can't walk or crawl on this sort of deck without risking deck and limb, so there has to be a fool-proof nearly instant way to get forward to deploy anchor, dock line, bow line, mainsail line issues, fend off, etc. And you don't want it to leak. So the SA20 option is a good concept, but the devil will be in the forward details. If the cabin top is short enough so you can just reach over and unsnap the forward snaps, of course no problem. My SA20 slot is over 7' long, I can only reach half way. I bought Princess plans many years ago, but was a bit overwhelmed by the scope of the project and the size of the boat. Then I got a great deal on the Caledonia, professionally built by my neighbor Geoff Kerr, and have sailed her all over. But I love sleeping on the SA20, and I want a sailboat that will have provide about the same accommodations (2 berths, dry storage, portapotti storage). With the kit feature I feel the CS20 mk3 makes this a real possibility for someone with my limited building background. FWIW I sailed with Greg Luckett on his CS20 a few years ago at the Small Reach Regatta (met Graham and Tom Lathrop (bought BJ27.5 plans from Tom too) but didn't get to sail on the EC20 they brought. No doubt the CS20's can sail. Not a huge fan of the CS20 looks, being a bit of a classic look snob, but I actually think the mk3 looks good, kind of a Stonehorse profile. In any event, pretty is as pretty does, and I look forward to the next installments of the mk3 construction. When the prototype has sailed and been lauded and critiqued and tweaked, and kits are generally available, I suspect you'll see a Caledonia for sale in Vermont, and the barn being cleared out for another boat project. If you need info about the SA20 slot and cover, I can provide info and maybe photos, if I can figure out how to upload them, or offline. Joel