Okay, what did I do wrong?

[mrthethird]

I thought I had followed the plans to the "T", but I may not have gotten that far through the alphabet...

The forward bulkhead is not falling into place like I believe it should. The plans call the angle 93 deg, I seem to have 110 deg. All the measurements seem ok. The stem is notched 21 1/2" bac from the front, the nose panel is 53" long, and the 1 x 4 jointer is centered at 1 3/4". The plans show the joiner on the forward side of the bulkhead. As you can see by the picture, I have well exceeded the maximum allowable angle. Anybody got a clue?

[Dave R1]

Can you clarify your statement about the notch in the stem for the bottom panel? As I read it, your notch starts at 2 1/2" from the front? (You wrote 21 1/2" but it isn't that would have cut off the entire stem.)

The notch should be 2 1/2" deep. That is, measure dfrom the aft edge of the stem forward on a line extended along the top of the deadwood. If you really did make the notch as deep as it seems like you said, that would give you the problem you illustrated in the photo.

Would you post a picture of the front end of the bottom panel and the keel?

[Dave R1]

Ray has a good point, too. It's going to be one or the other of those, I think.

Here's a quickie drawing showing the two dimensions. Note, the gray area is removed in the plans, I left it on mine to give me a place to attach the bitts.

[mrthethird]

To clarify, I hope...

The notch for the deck is 3/8" in deep, extending into the stem about 2 1/2". The measurement from the back of the notch to the front of the stem is 21 1/2", as per the plans.

However, the keel drawing calls for the notch to be 6 3/4" X 3/8", but still keeping 21 1/2" forward of the notch. I looked at my stem dimensions, and they appear correct per the building plans, but not to this drawing view. My stem is 24" deep, the drawing seems to want 28 1/4", but the building parts themselves are not that big.... :?

Do I ignore the 21 1/2" dimension and keep going, as that would solve this issue, or...

Build a new keel at this point before it causes more problems...

[Dave R1]

I think there are a number of confusing dimensions in the plans. Station 13 of the bottom panel is the common one. How do your dimensions compare to the drawing I posted?

[Dave R1]

By the way, I did the drawing of the keel from the plans for the Weekender. The 21 1/2"" is correct from the tip of the stem aft to where the recess for the deck begins.

One other thing, although this won't affect your current problem, remember that the angle of the bulkhead is measure from the forward face of the mast box. You should make a spacer equal to the fore and aft dimension of the finished mast box to put between the bulkhead and your angle measuring device. It seems like a small detail but it does create a different mast angle if you don't.

[mrthethird]

Craig,

Your drawing seems to make the stem longer than the drawing :shock:

On my stem, I came back 21 1/2" inches from the front. Your drawing doesn't give that dimension. Your drawing then leaves 7 7/32". I have 2 1/2", the plans show 6 3/4". I guess I need to figure out where the missing material is supposed to go, and put it on somehow. Hopeful that I just need to add some to the front end.

How I could cut six pieces of wood to shapes like that, and have them all fit exactly 4 1/4" short is mind boggling. It makes me want to believe there is something else to blame.... :?

[Dave R1]

I assume you meant Dave.

Here's another view of the drawing. It shows the 21 1/2" from the tip of the stem aft to the beginning of the notch.

Again, I strayed from the plans in that I left the center layer of the stem head intact at the aft end. Then I added in the pieces shown in gray to give me surfaces on which to mount the bitts.

See if you can determine how long that middle layer was originally. That might help you identify your problem.

[Barry Pyeatt]

I see some potential for error at the base of the forward bulkhead if the bottom isn't laid into the knotch cut above the deadwood to the proper depth. The tip has to be cut off of the bottom so it fairs in flush with the sides of the keel at that point. If not and not set to the proper depth, (far enough forward) that will give you a misalignment on the placement of the base of the forward bulkhead as well.

Some things to check:

The measurments of the stem parts and their correct orientation and alignment. The top edge of the stem does infact need to be 28 1/4" with the 3/8" X 6 3/4"cutout leaving 21 1/2", The foredeck section is 53" after trimming 2" of the tip off of it.

The top edge of the stem tip should measure 10 3/8" to the point where it joins the vertical portion of the stem. The top edge of that stem portion should measure 17 7/8" from the joint to the rear edge of the stem. Total 28 1/4".

The rear angled portion of the stem should measure 13 1/4" on the 39 degree angle where it joins the front portion of the stem.

If either of these measurements is off then you have an error in either the lofting or orientation of the stem.

If you still have the station lines marked on the keel, then check where the rear edge of the bottom of the stem lies on the keel. It should lie 1" forwarad of Station #1 on the keel.

This is a fairly critical measurment as well. Since it dictates where the bottom will lie on the keel.

I've seen a couple of builders that have gotten a little disoriented by the drawings and the correct orientiaion of the parts when it came to assembly. The Stem as drawn is horizontal but for placement, it is turned 50 degrees clockwise. The 50 degree angle is attached to the keel. And the stem tip is then matched up what is the bottom edge of the stem in the drawings.

The angle off the top edge of the stem to the front edge where the stem tip attaches is 39 degrees. If it is a different angle than that there is an error in orientation and mating surfaces. The front curve of the stem is drawn in after laying those parts together with the offsets as noted in the drawing. Some of the measurements can be a little confusing if not read carefully.

I would recommend that if these all check out that you get a couple large pieces of cardboard or 1/8" hardboard and loft them out again on the hardboard or cardboard and then cut them out carefully. Including the first 4 stations of the keel. Do this away from the work area and existing keel and try to have someone else double check them for you by either reading all the dimensions to you while you loft them out and then reversing roles to double check them. Draw out the station lines complete with dimensions written down on the hardboard or cardboard in dark ink or magic marker. The bolder and clearer all of them are made the easier it may be to pick up an error along the way.

When you double check each of the pieces against the existing keel stem don't let the existing keel/stem assembly be your guide. The 50 degree angle on the stem is at the keel/stem joint.

I've seen a couple of them laid out with the stem reversed and the the outer layers laid over it and cut to match. Nothing matched up but somehow the boat got put together and all the angles were incorrect and the mast angle ended up at about 110 degrees on both of them. Not the end of the world but making it right requires a bit of creative repair work and certainly makes the entire fabrication go off plans quite abit. It will still look like a Weekender but the top of the stem is too short and the angle is wrong when you put the deck on. The top of the stem and the deck should be on the same plane when correct. If not that way something is wrong.

And as mentioned, the forward bulkhead angle is measured at the front of the mast box and should be 93 degrees. That is 5" forward of the bulkhead. The mast box angle will come out at about 100 - 105 degrees as you have it now. Far too much rake and the boom will set low and hang down into the cockpit. Too much weather helm will be the result ant it will be hard to handle and tack.

Far better to have to rebuild the stem, stem tip and forward portion of the keel at this point than to continue. All the errors will compound themselves and make things wrong pretty much all the way thru construction. Not that it can't be fixed later on but it is a lot more hassle than to get it right the first time.

My father had a good saying that I always found applicable. "If you have time to do it over or fix it, then why didn't you have time to do it right the first time?"

Don't be bashful, between the lot of us we'll find the answers for you.

[mrthethird]

Bashful? No reason to be bashful. I can't here anyone laughing at me from here.... 8)

Sorry craigdaver1 :roll: :oops:

I FIGURED IT OUT!!!

Hold on tight, the logic sequences here may make you dizzy....

Not as serious as it seemed. I mistranscribed (is that a word, or a confusing obliteration of english?) 1 number on the stem tip, making it (some other dimension, say, "x") instead of 10 3/8". After building, I sanded a fair amount away to have the ends square....

So,

The total length, at deck level, of the stem was 24". It should have been 28 5/16"ish.

(4 5/16" of missing material + 2 1/2" [existing notch distance] = 6 13/16"... hmmm...)

All other dimensions and angles checked out. I then measured the length from the transom (where the radius stringer is) to the stem notch is (or, rather, should be), and came up with 15' 7". Only about 1/2" off. I think I can make that work, without too much rework.

Work, rework, repeat if necessary.

Thanks for all your help on this. I'm sure it won't be the last. Might help if I had room to take better pics [/b]

[Barry Pyeatt]

Good, the stem tip isn't difficult to replace to make it the correct length.

If I recall correctly, there are more than a couple Weekenders out there with different length stem tips. So fix it and move on. Measure more than once and double check the finished dimensions before cutting and then only cut once.