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Wes, I will post a picture of my cuddy and the detail of how my third step is with the cuddy. Will do tomorrow. and you are right it doesn't look too hard, just wondered if there was a detail I might have missed. picture tomorrow. Bob CS#199

Thanks Wes. Yes indeed. You ought to try it. I think Gordy was right when he said I would be giving up less performance that I might think. It was really fun and you are right Gordy I do need longer sprits...I built my to specs but I did increase the foot of the sail abit. That is because when I built the boat I bought used sails just a tad bigger than Graham's specs. My next project is to figure out how to build the step assist apparatus that I found on Graham's CD (see attached photos). I can't remember who did this but I remember seeing it long ago. I think this will be just the ticket for me when I go sailing solo. I am having a harder time all of the time trying to set the mast. I must be getting older or something. Thanks all for the support and comments. Happy sailing. Bob

No one remembers this? I have asked Graham but have not received a response yet. Surely Ray or Wes know who this is or remember it. Maybe you do Joe? I think I can build it from this picture but I would like to verify the details. Seems pretty handy to me....my mast gets heavier every time I lift it... Bob CS#199 Alaska

In reply to my own post, I am attaching pictures of what I remember seeing in my cd included with my plans for my CS. Who is this? I would like to contact him about how he built this pivot step assist device. Thanks. Bob CS#199 Alaska

All, I am stumped. I remember a post about a system someone developed to help step his unstayed mast. As I recall it was a metal ring on a pivot anchored to the deck. He would insert the end of the mast into the ring to lock it in place while he walked the mast upright. Then he could lower the mast into the step. I remember that the builder made a comment that it was not that pretty but it sure helped him lift the mast into place. I remember the deck was finished bright. Does anyone remember who that was or the post? I have tried searching for mast steps, mast pivots, tabernacles etc. but the search doesn't come up with anything. Bob CS#199 Alaska

All, As promised I wanted to give you a quick report on our sail this weekend using only the main mast in the third step as Graham designed it in the CS. We had a blast. She did extremely well to all points especially to weather with the center board all the way down. With a small chop on the lake and a light but constant breeze we hit burst of speed around 7 mph using our GPS and we didn't have to reduce sail one time. Heeling was efficient and safe and easy to control. I rigged her using the typical main sheet location of the ketch rigging typical of our CS design. My son went with me and I couldn't get him to let go of the tiller. We didn't even use our fishing poles it was so fun to sail around the lake. We were squealing like school boys--good thing we almost had the entire lake to ourselves--very embarrassing for two grown men. Setup took about 10 minutes and take down was even faster. Since we have a cuddy on our CS putting the main in the third step gave us more room in the cockpit. In short she was very fun to sail and still very fast using only the one sail. Many thanks to you all for your wonderful advice and comments and especially to Graham for a wonderful and superior hull design. Happy sailing to you all. Bob CS#199 First Attempt Alaska

Thanks Ray. Thanks for not tearing my head off, but I assume that you don't have a cuddy on your CS. That would make it a lot easier to handle reefing the main I think. I am not really in love with the sloop rig. I just think it would be a little easier to handle solo especially wihout a forsail...at least that is what I have experienced over that last three years with my CS. Graham is not responding to my emails, too busy I think or just put out with my insane questions but I have added a copy of my note to him yesterday. I hope I didn't quote you incorrectly in any way. Please excuse me if I did. Thanks for any and all comments and advice. I am by no means an experience sailor...yet but I am striving to be and your help is invaluable. My note to Graham is below. regards, Bob Hi Graham, Hope you are well and that your project is going well. I am writing in response to a suggestion from Ray who told me that you have (and he has seen) a sloop rig design for a CS20. I would be fascinated in looking at the requirements for a sloop rig for several reasons. I have a CS20 that I added a cuddy to and you will remember it as you labeled her--an interesting boat a few years ago. I love my little boat and she is fast but my cuddy (which I also love) has complicated my ability to quickly reef my main while sailing solo. I have been in some pretty big blows lately and barely escaped real trouble by dropping the main altogether, but that has really caused me to go through a rodeo trying to collect the sail etc while the seas get very rough very fast. Additionally, I wouldn't mind the opportunity to unclutter the cockpit a bit. I truly love the classic ketch rig. I have admired it on such cruisers as the Nauticat for years, which are true classics and desirable on real cruisers say in the 30 to 40 foot range so that it could handle any weather on across the globe adventures. But I go out alone quite a bit and I have grown to dislike having to rig up both mast each time I go out. That is why I have asked you about making a tabernacles for both of my masts. This advice from Ray to ask about a sloop rig came from a discussion in the messingabout forum I am having about my plan to use the center step you already designed for the CS by using the Main mast only. As I mentioned I am having a real gymnastic activity trying to reduce sail when a big blow comes quickly. And I have all of the control lines running from the main to the cockpit but to be honest it still is quite a trick to reduce sail. Actually, this is all really interesting to me especially in light of Ray's comments because I have crunched some of the numbers on the center step as you designed it in the CS and it appears that if I use the main sail in that step I will still have a perfectly balanced sail plan--with the center of effort leading the center of lateral resistance by at least 10 to 12" or 5% of the length of the boat. The only real negative I can see is that she will be under sailed which is the purpose of the step in the first place. But it looks like from my calculations that I could increase the area of the main sail stepped in the center step up to 90 square feet and still have the center of effort around 10 to 12 inches leading the center of lateral resistance. I wouldn't even have to increase the height of the mast and I would still have the benefit of using a simple sprit instead of a heavy dangerous boom. It is good all around to me and I still don't need shrouds, stays or a jib to mess with. Anyway, sorry for all the narrative, but since Ray mentioned the sloop rigging plan for the CS I thought I would I ask you to share with me your design on how to modify my CS for a sloop rig. As always I know you have little or no time for this, but I would appreciate it. I will post a picture on the forum. Best regards, Bob CS#199

Thanks Ray. I will check it out. Lately, Graham has been so busy he hasn't been able to respond to my latest posts. I hate to bother him with my constant tweaking of his wonderful design. But I am having fun. Thanks for your note. Bob Alaska

I just read my last post and I can't wait for Ray to tell me where I am wrong. What he really will want to tell me is that really I need a small pocket yacht instead of a small rocket like the CS and he will be right but I chose to build the CS 4 years ago as it was my first build of a boat of any kind and I am happy with it even if we do use it in a way it wasn't really designed for. One of these days maybe I will get the time and energy to build the Princess which is what I should have done in the first place. Live and learn I guess. No offense Ray. Bob

Yes, I agree and don't get me wrong anyone. I love the ketch rig ( I don't want Graham to never speak to me again--he is already upset with me for modifying his sweet CS design to meet my needs here in Alaska like adding a cuddy, an interior motor well, a larger motor and extending the LWL by 2.5 feet ), but the way we use our boat which is unorthodox from most of you folks like fishing from the bow, motoring around in some shallow bays and sleeping while anchored up in quiet coves out of the rain in the cuddy-- it will be nice to get the mizzen out of the cockpit area and truthfully the main aft so we can use the bow more freely as well as the cockpit to fish etc from. I have crunched the numbers and using the center step where Graham designed it I will be able to increas the main to around 80 sf in area and still have 10" lead to the center of lateral resistance. I can use the main in the center step without any shrouds, stays and without a jib which will still afford lazy sailing. I can also jump up and reef my main from the cockpit without having to perform circus or rodeo feats to bring her down when a big blow comes. I think I will be able to get up to 6 or 7 knots with this rig. We will see. Thanks for the comments. Bob CS#199 First Attempt Alaska

Thanks Wes. Good stuff. I too love my CS. Perhaps the reason I want to sail with the main in the optional step is because I have a cabin. I spend a lot of time in my cockpit and your are right it is just right in size. It will be nice to get the mizzen out of the space as well and move it forward to the center step. My daughter loves to ride foreward of the cabin and taking the main aft will free up that space for her. We often fish from that location and not having the main there will be nice as well. Perhaps we are using our boat in an unortodox method but we love our little cruiser and neither of us are racers...so it is just fine for us to reach about 7 knots in a fair breeze. By the way It might be comforting to all who have checked out this topic to know I have run the numbers concerning the CE and the center of lateral resistance. Eventually as Graham designed the center step I can increase the main sail to an area of 80 and still have the center of effort leading by 10". This will all be done without a jib, shrouds or stays of any kind. I will give a report on how it went by next week. We are going out this weekend. I look forward to be able to jump up and reef quickly from the cockpit when a big blow kicks up and yet be able to tack without any effort. Thanks agian for the info. I saw your picture on the weekender web site the other day and thought your history was pretty neat. Happy sailing. Bob CS #199 First Attempt Alaska

By the way Wes how was the vacationer -pocket cruiser you built?

I think you are ultimately right Wes. I am going to try using the main in the center step without the jib. I have looked at the center of effort with the jib and without. Where Graham placed the center step is about 10" lead of the center of lateral resistance which is just perfect. I may increase the size of the main which according to my scribbles could be 120 sf. as long as I line up the new main with the centers of lateral resistance where Graham designed it. It should be very balanced. So I think you are right--problem solved without shrouds, stays or a jib. Thanks for the comments. Bob

Here is the sketch as promised of my CS 17 plus 3, First Attempt under the main only in the center step and with a small non overlapping self tending jib kind of like the staysail Graham sails with. This is promising for me since I have the cuddy. Excuse the drawing, it is a little rough... Bob CS #199 Alaska

Oh, I forgot that I promised a sketch of what I am planning or what First Attempt would look like with just the main....I did add the non overlapping self tending jib...sorry about that Gordy. I will drop that off. Oh and I also forgot to say that part of what is driving this is the fact that I have a cuddy--which I love here in Alaska. Excuse the drawing, after all I am only an architect.... Bob

Not at all Gordy, that is what I need the most. I will try it. Good luck Docpal. I appreciate all the great advice. This weekend looks like it will be a good one. Happy sailing all. Bob

Yes, that is it. Thank you so much. Chris. That is just what I was thinking. This helps a lot. I also appreciate your post in response to my additional topic or question. I think you are right about the stays. Appreciate it very much. Bob Alaska

What do you think, Docpal?

I see what you mean. I was thinking something like this (see attached photo). If I added some light stays to port and starboard like the picture attached it might work huh? Bob CS #199 First Attempt Alaska

All, I am sorry but I just have to ask one more question sailing with the mast in the center step or third step on my CS( you can see my topic a few topics below to which I had so many helpful comments). Let's say I wanted to change the rigging and use the main in the center step almost all of the time. Could I use rig up a small jib (maybe with a club foot) from the mast to a bowsprit or maybe even with a furler? I guess I would be changing the rigging to a kind of sloop rigging similar to the Vacationer. Wes will know what I am talking about since he has built and sailed a vacationer (pocket cruiser) I believe. I even thought about adding a fold in the mast to ease set up. I am taking a risk that Ray will totally tear my head off here but I am willing to risk it. Bob CS #199 First Attempt Alaska

Hi All, Good replies from everyone. Sometimes I think we defend something just because it is clever or loyal to do so. Even Graham has admitted that a different rig than the ketch can be used. Let us all not forget that he designed the CS with the third or center step. I don't think he did that for nothing. It is best to have the ketch rig of course, but as I said before even with sail tracks and reefs in place it is often difficult to get er all done solo in a big blow. I will try the main in the center step for kicks this week and give a report. Regarding the question on how do I have the sheet arrangement for the main and mizzen, it is just the way Graham has it designed. I haven't changed anything from that. I am truly appreciative for all the comments and opinions. As a fairly new sailor I learn much always from all of you. Bob CS #199 First Attempt

Thanks Gordy. That was my next question, if I could just leave the mizzen home when I know I will be for a good blow out on Resurrection Bay in Seward. I got caught two weeks ago in a 5 foot sea...and it was like a rodeo...Haha.. Thanks for the comment. Bob

Thank you Peter, that is what I wanted to know. I love the ketch rig but sometimes I just seem to get into big blows too quickly and one sail would be the best. I am so glad to hear that she did okay with the center step. I had to laugh when you said to be honest you were looking for the brakes...I too have felt that same way. Anyway thanks for the infor. Have a great day and happy sailing... Bob Alaska CS #199

I think you are right. My cabin makes it a bit harder. That may really be the bigger issue. I will consider a block on the sprit. As far as a picture of the boat with single mast I haven't tried it yet. Kind of nervous about it even though I know Graham designed her for it. Just wondering if anyone had sailed with the single set up. I saw the picture of one in Australia sailing with the mizzen in the center step and the main completely furled. She seemed to be making way fairly nicely. I appreciate all of your thoughts in any case. I am still learning so much, but then maybe that is what I love about this stuff...you are always learning... Bob

Hey all, It has been awhile since I posted but I love reading all of yours for sure. I have a question that you more experienced CS sailors can answer. How has it been to sail with the main stepped in the single or third mast position? Even with sail tracks on both the main and mizzen I am a little frustrated with trying to reef the main when I am single handling my CS. We get big blows pretty quickly here in Alaska and I think it might be nice to sail her with just the single mast. I have many times furled the main completely and gone on with just the mizzen but in the typical position. I would appreciate your thoughts. Thank you all. We have had a rainy Summer here in Anchorage so our sailing days in the bays have been somewhat restricted. Ugh...darn...rain. Hoping for a better Fall. Regards to you all, Bob Alaska CS #199 First Attempt