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Action Tiger builds sailboat. With epoxy!


Action Tiger
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2 hours ago, Thrillsbe said:

@Action Tiger-- that's one on the disadvantages of using that type of plywood.  The surface is so darned uneven!  I'm curious to try marine grade baltic birch.  There's also a new brand of underlayment in my Lowes that is tempting.  Both have a silky smooth finish.  What would it hurt, for a boat that spends 95% of its life tarped and on a trailer?  It would cut down on all that fairing work.

To be clear, the ply itself is fine. Fir ain't all that bad. The cloth I applied, though, is a little, um, wavy in spots. Well, the fill coats were wavy. It all looked much smoother before the color went on.:)

 

 

Peace,

Robert

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  • 2 weeks later...

I guess?

I didn't try to use cheap crap, but domestic ply rather than imported exotic hardwood from the rainforest.

 

The time I've taken has been fairing with a longboard by hand. It takes a while to go from one end of a twenty foot boat to the other with a hand longboard. And, I'm not sure it's that unusual to fair glass. I've had to fair every glass application I didn't use peel ply or a substitute for. Maybe if I was a pro I could do better.

 

I run about 50 miles a week, many of them "slow", say 8-9 minutes. I regularly run 17 minute 5ks and 35 minute 10ks. I also throw down sub 3 hour marathons. You know, slow...

 

Thanks for the implication my boat is crap, though. Between biting my head off for joking on one of your threads, and insulting my boat and work, you may just be the one to drive me away from here, for good.

 

Peace,

Robert

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You know. I have thought about it.

 

I'm done with this thread.

 

I was out working on the foils, and I just could not help thinking about my crap boat.

 

Sorry, guys.

 

One bad apple spoiled the barrel.

 

I'm not going through all the work of posting to be insulted again.

I'm done.

Bye.

 

Peace,

Robert

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Meh,

I got plenty of other stuff to share.

 

I just really can't tolerate rudeness, especially when it's anonymous and petty.

 

I have met too many neat people here to leave, or let this ruin anything, but I'm pretty much done sharing this project. I'll post a picture of the finished boat.

 

Peace,

Robert 

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I don't think the crap comment was directed at your build, so much as material choice decisions, in general. I've used Douglas fir many times and usually regret it, if I have to fair it. For bulkheads that'll get skinned or out of sight partitions, etc., it's fine and inexpensive, but in places it'll get seen, I try to use other species, so the smoothing process isn't as painful. Domestic construction grades are inexpensive, but have their known drawbacks. Weight for strength and stiffness and fairing are the big ones with most building small craft. Since we don't pay ourselves a wage for fairing, this can be discounted to a degree, but the weight/stiffness/strength issue can often make a huge difference. The raw hull to my Sabor design is about 120 pounds in Ocoume and about 150 in Douglas fir. Doesn't seem like much, but it's enough to require 2 more knots of wind to get it up on a sustained plane, which in a performance oriented sailor, can be significant and all because of material choices. 

 

Robert, you're a good builder and a valuable contributor. Don't forget this and understand, there's many here that look forward to your posts here and your choices, which are likely similarly in value appraised, to their own build decisions. Your sometimes eclectic approuch is refreshing and inspiring, so keep it up and ignore the voices from behind the curtain. You're just as nuts as the rest of us, though some of us are bright enough to admit it. Keep stroking my friend.

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Paul,

I always appreciate your words. And I thank you for the compliments.

 

But, I ain't fishing, ain't being a teenager, and ain't quitting the forum. Though I have been posting less and less. That may continue.

 

I have already had to defend my choices on this thread, had the materials declared substandard and the design lacking in substance and looks.

 

And, now again.

 

I have spent a few years here, trying to build good relationships with people. I truly, truly consider some of you my friends, and I'm trying hard to get myself all the way over to the right coast to see y'all in person.

 

I just don't really Internet because I don't dig computers, at all, or this stupid smart phone that is hard to type on. This is pretty much it. Well, there is one other boat forum, but no other internet.

 

It's extra time and effort to document and post progress. Not a lot, but enough. I truly am sorry if everyone is going to miss out on anything, but I'm also adamant about rudeness.

 

Paul, you were very considerate and rational when you laid out the shortcomings of Doug fir. That bothered me not one whit.

 

My boat was very clearly called crap. It's right in post #102. Insulting and rude. Period. 

 

Of course, we can always say later how we were joking when we said rude stuff, right? Wrong.

 

Peace,

Robert 

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On 12/7/2016 at 8:31 PM, Action Tiger said:

So. My epoxy bottles are in the little locker I made on the shelf to close them in. Okay, it's a box.

But, I stuck a bunch of Christmas lights in and around the bottles to warm the gloop up. It also works on citrus trees to prevent fruit loss from freezing.

Peace,

Robert

How well did this work out for you? I like the idea but ended up toting all of mine down to the basement for the winters and back up to the garage when it gets warm enough. My first boat build ended up using 4 or 5 times the epoxy because I was too ignorant to realize the effects of temperature on how it spreads, and it created a huge drip mess. I then said what the heck, and learned the hard way that sanding epoxy resin sucks big time. My next boat builds all improved and I am glad I used less expensive materials on my early builds. Incidentally, those boats are now about 15 years old and still being used around the Great Lakes. Exterior grade 1/4" plywood. Still one in my back yard too, that my sons built over 10 years ago. Some folks may recall that one here, the Amphora, Dragon built by Sam and Ben when they were 10 and 9.

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Greg,

I quit warming the epoxy. The idea worked, but the environment was still too cool, in my opinion, for a good cure. I just wait until temps are good, now.

 

This boat also reminded me why I quit using epoxy years ago. I don't like building boats this way.

 

Peace,

Robert

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Action Tiger said:

Greg,

I quit warming the epoxy. The idea worked, but the environment was still too cool, in my opinion, for a good cure. I just wait until temps are good, now.

 

This boat also reminded me why I quit using epoxy years ago. I don't like building boats this way.

 

Peace,

Robert

 

 

What method of boat building do you prefer? I was watching a video on Youtube yesterday where they were building a long boat as done in the middle ages. Pretty cool.

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The lights in a box trick works, though I've just used a single incandescent bulb, rather than a chain of Christmas lights. I'd think both would work, with the Christmas lights having the advantage of spreading the heat around more uniformly, than my single bulb approuch. I used a few foam ice chest coolers, gotten for a few bucks at a fleamarket. I've only needed this a few days out of the year in the last decade, but previously, when I lived in the great white north, the goo lived in the boxes all winter, keeping crystallization from occurring and the goo at a reasonably spreadable temperature. Staving off crystallization was my primary reason for the heated box thing, but having room temperature goo, came as an added benefit.

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   Robert - Thanks for continuing to contribute here.  I've been slack lately because I always read and enjoy your posts but lately I haven't chimed in (sorry for that).  I like all the projects you've shared here mostly because you're willing to go your own way and you're not shy about sharing the ups and downs of it all.  That kind of attitude is both interesting and educational.  Your enthusiasm for other people's projects (including mine) is infectious and I'm looking forward to catching up with you next time I get to CA and going for a paddle (though that is probably pretty far in the future).

   If you decide you'd rather concentrate on actually building a boat than playing around on the internet you'll still be my hero but I'll be extra happy if you can spare a little time to share and let me and the rest of the forum go along for the ride.  I'll try to remember in the future that an occasional atta-boy from me might be helpful.

   Keep up the good work - You're exactly what this community needs.

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Ken,

Thanks for the kind words.

I love this place, man. Lots of cool friends I would never otherwise be able to meet and speak to.

It is AWESOME.

But. Man. I just DON'T do internet. I do one other forum (about boats) and a fowl magazine (hehe) and that's it.

 

Too much anonymous bile, for me.

 

When I was jumped for cracking jokes, I apologized, and deleted ALL my comments that might have offended. 

Is my boat odd? Yes. Is domestic fir ply crap? No.

 

It is just disappointing to share and have your work called crap.

 

But. I still have a Sneakeasy to restore, a CS 17 to rehab and finish off, a Kudzu boat to finish painting, and lift pump to make, some spoon oars, a canoe story...

 

By the by, we just watched Life Aquatic, and I thought of you. Nice to "hear" from you, mate!

 

Peace,

Robert

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On 2/22/2017 at 1:27 PM, Greg Luckett said:

What method of boat building do you prefer? I was watching a video on Youtube yesterday where they were building a long boat as done in the middle ages. Pretty cool.

Greg,

I've been building anthropometrically measured skin on frame kayaks for some 20 odd years.

With one stick, I can measure a person in about ten minutes.

Then, about 60 hours later, I can have a frame ready to test fit, then skin.

I like cutting mortises and lashing. They are very meditative.

 

I also enjoy straight, plain wood. I've done several sampans, punts, pirogues, and skiffs in plain wood. Lapped sides and cross planked bottoms. Just dumb old pond and swamp boats.

 

I built a bunch of strip/glass canoes and stitch and glues, and swore I'd never do glass and gloop again, hence the title of the thread. 

 

My fave is skin on frame. Then wood. Then ply. Then, anything with epoxy.:)

 

Peace,

Robert

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One of the problems with e-mails and social media is that it is difficult to impart mood when writing.  I can't tell you how many times people have misunderstood my e-mails!  An my latest posting fiasco was when I was curious about the gaff rig.  I posted a question on the Duckworks "magazine" on FB, inquiring about the merits of that rig.  You would have thought that I called some people's mother a hooker!  I raised a lot of hackles, when all I wanted to do was understand the merits of the rig.  I'm not begging you to stay on this thread, but I do ask you to not be so angry about it.  It might just be a misunderstanding, poor choice of words, or one loose-lipped grumpy boatbuilder.  Hard to say from this keyboard and screen.

 

Years and years ago, I built a boat from fir plywood.  It is still around, although it has checked badly.  I should have sheathed the skin in 4 oz.  But, she has been a fine little boat for over 20 years, so who's to say?  

IMG_5448.JPG

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Don,

 

I dig. I was chewed out in all caps for making a joke.

I dig. And I endeavor to always be polite, and to correct any misunderstandings in a timely manner...

 

My boat isn't crap. It isn't made with the cheapest crap I could find, but rather the best quality available. Frankly, the fir I can get is head and shoulders above the imported marine stuff.

Did I mention the ultra expensive order of "marine" luaun garbage I rejected just before deciding to use fir? I lost my deposit rejecting it.

 

And, yes, it is childish and jerky to quit posting. Sorry everyone. I'm a childish jerk.

 

Meh.

 

I will start a thread about some semi spoon oars I'm going to make for a rowboat, and the lift pump I'm going to make for my sailboat.

And many other things, as has been my custom, because I'm not just here to push my business.

 

Peace,

Robert 

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 A good point is raised in the previous post. Though this particular forum is one of the nicest (without a doubt the best, thanks Frank) I participate on, it's often hard to convey the appropriate emotions. I'm as much a cynical/wiseass as anyone my age, which I think is a normal progression for intelligent folks. I do hold much of my cynicalness for personal conversations, but I still get in sometimes inappropriate zingers occasionally. In my mind, it's a sense of humor and banter that I hope is transmitted, but this is the problem. These sites are typically pretty sterile, void of voice inflection, facial expressions and body language, that would instantly let anyone know what your true intent of the text actually is. It's very easy to read something completely out of its intended context and this can cause rustled feathers. I try to take things I read, in the context it's meant and not try to read anything into it. I also try to do the same with my posts. Pissing contests and misunderstood comments are an easy hole to fall into, so I focus on the essence of the content, more so the actual adjectives employed. I also look at the poster, who may have better writing skills than I or possibly is having an equal bit of confusion over one of my posts. I've found a well placed emoticon can be helpful, but mostly a grain of salt or with some members, the whole darn salt shaker at times . . .

 

I'm looking forward to your lift pump thread. Will it be the typical manual flap valve deal or something different? I've done several over the years and am always trying to make the next one better. My last was double action and it really moved water well.

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