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Oar length


Hirilonde

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If I am willing to settle for sailing in navigable waters I find I don't need oars.  My paddle, resting in brackets on the port side of the centerboard trunk is plenty.  This has been a premise of mine from the beginning.  But lately I have been wanting to sail places that will require some other force for propulsion and I am not yet ready to acquiesce to getting an outboard.  I am quite good at short tacking, but one salt pond I would like to sail has channels that could keep the best of sailors occupied for hours while getting no where but frustrated.

 

What is the ideal length for oars for a Lapwing?  I may have to go with something shorter even though I will be using ferrules to break them down for storage.  But I want to consider ideal length before I consider compromise.

 

I am also considering the location for the rowlocks.  I am leaning towards locating them in the aft cockpit such to row facing forward while sitting on the stern hatch.  This may not be the most ergonomic location, but I do not want to lower my masts and I want to be in control.  I actually go so far that I want to be able to leave the sails hanked and ready to hoist while rowing.  Every other boat control is reachable from the aft cockpit, I really want rowing to occur there as well.    I have already put blocking in that location as well as the locations Graham calls for in the plans.  I have been leery of putting anything on deck that may interfere with hiking.  But I am finding that only I have to be able to hike and this forward facing location will not interfere.  I am quite sold on this, but I figure if there is anyone who can give me a good argument for something else he/she is probably a member of this forum.  And there is no law against adding a second rowing station later.

 

The beam of the Lapwing is 5'-6 ½", CS 15 is 5'-5" and the CS 17 is 5'-10".  So my oars should be the same as a CS 15 and a little shorter than a CS 17?  (what ever they are)

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I made my cs 17 oars 10.5 feet.  I did calculations based on Pete Culler articles I found, using the beam width you mentioned..  I rounded up where there was an option, resulting in adding about 6", because my personal preference is to have my hands overlap as I pull in for the stroke, rather than side by side.  Plus I hate oars that are too short.  And, finally, I went longer rather than shorter with the idea it would be useful to have a little added length for sculling over the stern.  All this remains, alas, academic until launching.  But that was my thought process.

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I wonder if the forward facing position might influence the length? You know, the calculations may be different if you are at a different height and using a different stroke? Sitting on the thwart and really laying into them is different than sitting up on deck and chopping at it, you know? It seems all the forward rowers I've seen use longish oars, but I've only paddled facing forward,, never rowed that way.

I would use a stick or pole or something to figure a good length to start. Pretend to row with it, or better them, while your boat is in the water. Better than guessing and cogitation, I think.

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It just so happens that I made up a little spreadsheet to calculate oar lengths yesterday.

It uses both the Shaw and Tenney / Pete Culler formula and the Collars formula.

 

Here's a plot:

 

post-4524-0-90146400-1465866760_thumb.png

 

If you would like the spreadsheet just send me a PM.  Is there a better way to share files?

 

For the lapwing and CS15, I came up with 10 feet.  For the CS17, 11 feet.  These lengths are rounded to the nearest 6 inches.

 

Bob

 

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Thanks Paul, Robert, David and Bob.  All good info and already integrated into my decision making criteria.  Using the formula in the article linked by Paul I come up with 9'-9".  From Bob's spreadsheet it would appear I want oars slightly over 10'.  No one is advocating anything shorter, which means I really want to avoid compromising to shorter unless I really have to.  It looks like 10' is the length of choice.  I need to do a little more investigation into storing the oars and see if 5' + ½ additional length of the ferrules (they make both of the 2 pieces longer) can be secured easily, very accessibly out of the way.  I think I will try under the side decks first, but consider tubes through the forward bulkhead as a more permanent method and a project for next winter.

 

I have ordered ferrules  http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware/misc/saw-frh/oar.htm and have determined to make my oars out of Alaskan Yellow Cedar which I can easily obtain and hand pick from a huge selection of beautiful material.  The OD of the ferrules is 48 mm, or 1.889" and the sections of oar connect at near, but not necessarily the maximum OD of the oars.  I will have to do a glue up, and will likely choose 2 layers of 5/4 x 6 (1' x 5 ½ actual) which will create a 8/4" x 5 ½" blank.  I am still pondering the exact design of the oars.  They will be a simple blade, work oar and finished in varnish with Tung oiled grips with leathers and buttons.  The rowlocks of course (though very subjective) will be bronze, or at least brass.

Still room for discussion, though I have received some great info already.

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My 10' 4" hollow beachwood oars with douglas oar locks are awesome. I found some old sculling oars at the boatshop in need of repair, scrapped/bleached/glassed/epoxy tips, and reused for some awesome oars.  I have tried  a paid of 10-11' snap together oars with carbon fiber blades intended for whitewater rafting; my only complaint was they felt heavy when rowing, both where extremely durable and folded up great in the bottom of CS17 or trunk of my car.

 

The curved spoon blades are the beachwood oars handle great moving the boat at 2.5knots and if I try hard 3.5knots.

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Spoon blades are still a consideration, just not sure that considering the use of the oars it is really worth the effort for me.  As much as I have enjoyed rowing I don't think I will be rowing my Lapwing for pleasure or speed.  Rowing will be out of necessity and limited to those few times when it is really needed and stowed as soon as sailing is viable. I am also looking to keep with my own twisted version of a classical look that led me to build a Lapwing in the first place.  Some day I might just have to build a dory skiff with custom oars for rowing.  Then I can see myself doing birdsmouth looms and scoop blades.

 

Even with Edward's post to this thread I have yet to see a single suggestion for shorter.  I always sensed that most oars people have/use are too short if anything for the boat.  I think I am convinced now not to make that mistake, even for the sake of convenient storage.  If storing them on board is not as neat as I would like I can always leave them at home for open water sailing.  But having inefficient oars for my forays into the south shore salt ponds will be way too frustrating.
 

Ninigret Pond, the largest of the coastal salt ponds in RI is the one I am looking to sail where I will need my oars.  I have already sailed Great Salt Pond, the one furthest east.  It is much deeper in most places.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.354154,-71.6945431,12.5z?hl=en

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Dave, I'll be watching this thread closely, as everything you said applies to what I'll be doing to build oars for my CS20.3. I bought the ferrules from Duckworks and they seem pretty robust. It will be interesting to see where the oars will store. On my SD11N I made little clips that secure the oar tips under the breasthooks and keep them instantly ready for deployment. But the solution is not without downsides. Water on the oars runs into the seat tops. The good news is that the mainsheet is far enough aft it doesn't catch the oars anywhere. The video in my signature shows them before I put the clips in. Sometimes they would just hop out or the blade would slide into the center of the boat.  What is the plan for storage on your LapWing?

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Is ther also the possibility of sculling? Sculling is a great way to move boats, and then you'd only need one oar. Also, as culled boat can slip through narrower gaps than a rowed one.

It makes sense, if you want to stay aft, and have clear side decks, to at least consider sculling an alternative to rowing in this case. I think. :)

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Rowing facing forward works very well for me. My CS20 sails so well in even a wisper of wind that rowing is seldom required. I expect the same from Lapwing.

When I do row I have the sails up and the rudder between my knees. A few strokes of the oars to move the boat thru a tight spot or around the bend to catch the next breeze is all that is required.

My oars are 9'6" This is the longest length that makes for good storing on my boat. Rowing is comfortable and efficient at this length.

Setting up to skull from the stern is a good idea for moving the boat in close quarters, but insufficient to go against the tide in my waters.

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Steve,

 

To prevent drips from running down the oars into the boat, you can tie a string, leather thong, or shoelace, (whatever) around the oar.  It should be located outboard, somewhere outside the gunnel, but close enough that it doesn't go in the water with every stroke.  Leave a few inches of the string ends hanging down.   The idea is to create a bump where the dribbling water can collect and some thin tips to encourage the water to drip off the oar.  Kayak paddles are sold with rubber donuts on the shaft that serve the same purpose

 

Bob

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The apostrophes make it look like you're abbreviating something. :) I know you mean "feet", it just looks funny.

Also, Dave, I looked at Pete Culler's oar making article last night (I forgot which book, Skiffs and Schooners?), and saw his spoon blade oars aren't all THAT much more work. Well within your capabilities, and maybe that little extra bit of snooty your boat deserves.

An idea I stole from an article I read is to have oars that break into paddles, that is paddles and oars in one. Since yours are going to break down anyway, why not see if you can make them double duty? I like to think up complicated stuff for other people to do. Did I ever mention I'm a designer? ;)

I'm not doing none of that to my oars. They will be regular old straight narrow bladed square loomed boring old oars. With turkshead drip rings...

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I went to pick up the wood today.  The salesman told me he had some 8/4 x 6 rough cut ALC C&better.  They get a kick out of my visits because of what I am doing with their material.  Their other customers are making fancy decks and porches with the stuff they sell.  He let me have the 8/4 for the same board foot price as the 5/4 decking.  I did a quick belt sand of one side to make it easier to draw out the silhouette and then the offset to use for the first cut.  Long pieces, cut on a band saw have a tendency to distort some as material is removed.  This will give me the chance to re-draw the actual paddle again after the wood moves.

 

post-442-0-40948600-1466093432_thumb.jpgpost-442-0-97546600-1466093439_thumb.jpg

 

I dug out my old hardware stash and along with the rowlocks I bought from B&B as part of my order I came up with 3 options so far.

Option #1 is the set of inwale mounting Davis rowlocks.  I would like this option, but with side decks being much wider then having a gunwale I don't see it as viable.  The pivots would have to be set too high to clear the rub rail when rowing.

 

post-442-0-27134100-1466093513_thumb.jpg

 

Option #2 is the let in pivots with round rowlocks that I bought from B&B.  The problem here is with break apart oars, they do not remain captured and would need to be removed and stored.  There is little question in my mind as to how long before I would be one short

 

post-442-0-06777300-1466093524_thumb.jpg

 

Option #3 is to use the Davis rowlock and the let in pivot.  I would need to make a longer tether, probably out of line and some kind of doo-dad under the side deck to hold it from banging around when not in use.  This way the rowlock would always be attached to the boat.

 

post-442-0-73796300-1466093537_thumb.jpg

 

I also found this.  I have been trying to ignore the posts about sculling, but maybe I will have to try it again.

 

post-442-0-52888600-1466093599_thumb.jpg

 

it isn't a matter of work or what my boat deserves Robert.  I wan't to carve a nice set of traditional oars from scratch.  As you know I have made paddles before.  One was an off-set, scoop blade Euro kayak paddle.

 

post-442-0-79704800-1466095637_thumb.jpgpost-442-0-57043300-1466095674_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

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