Jbrady Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 Hello all, first time poster here. My name is Josh. I recently began kayaking this year, my first boat was a chesapeake 17 that I bought off craigslist. I love the boat and plan to build a clc kit in the future but I've become very fond of the skin on frame designs. Being new to this I think a kudzu would make a great first build with the cost being lower than say a clc kit. Plus I get a SOF boat. So my first question here is regarding wood. I'm having a hard time finding baltic birch or any other quality import here in panama city, fl and honestly being new to wood working am not sure that I need to go butchering quality wood on this first build anyways. In the FAQ section its mentioned about epoxying poor quality wood. If one were to go about this, what wood then becomes acceptable? Standard lumberyard plywood? Marine grade? Ive got loads of 3/4" non treated that ive been doing sub floor repairs with in my home. I have some 1/2" treated that i did roof repairs with too. Not sure if i could make use of any of it for this though. What kind of epoxy would be best for sealing wood in this manner? From reading the FAQ and some other threads I understand how important good wood is but I think I'll save that for build number two. Thanks for any info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 Here is why I do not like cheap plywood. Cut these out to make a coaming form. Left it on the tablesaw and next morning this is what I found when I walked into the shop. Granted this is an extreme case but US made plywood is crap! I will not use it anything that my life depends on. I am sure there is BB in you area, you are just not going to find it a retail store. You might find it at an old school lumber yard. Most likely you will have to find the wholesaler/supplier for the local cabinet shops. They are working warehouses, not show rooms and when you walk in they expect you know what you want and not need to see the product. Most I deal with don't mind the small guys walking in as long as they know what they want and pay cash. Some will require a business license even though I have never had it happen. I deal with one place only rarely, they don't know me. When I walk in, tell them what I want and bring out my debit card I often get that look of "OH! You are not just some guy off the street'. Not trying to discourage you, just saying that they just expect you to know what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Tiger Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 I buy my hardwood from a cabinet maker. He also has birch ply on hand, in multiple thicknesses. I'm as skeptical as anyone, and as familiar with plywood, but that birch ply shocked me. I have a chunk of off cut that has been kicking around my yard outside for a year or so, and it is unchecked, flat, and lams are still tight. It really is pretty good stuff... Also, no amount of epoxy can cure the problems of cheap ply for this application. The cheap fir ply, with fewer lams, will still check and warp even if you slather it with goop, and it may still get wet and delaminate. Don't worry about being a wood butcher, either, because you get to hide all the wood. Get some good ply, and do yourself right by using good stuff. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Tiger Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 Here is a piece. A year in the dirt and grass, exposed to temps from 112f to 25f. Not bad for a piece of cabinet ply... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbrady Posted May 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 Fair enough, I'll find some good wood. What thickness ply should I source for a kudzu? Sorry not trying to get print information for free but I'd like to find some wood before I buy my plans. Thanks for the useful info guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Tiger Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 No problem. You want 1/2 inch. Find a cabinet guy, tell him you're building a boat. Take it back to show him when you're done. You might end up selling the guy a boat or three over the ensuing years... Although, you might could find marine grade ply, too, and that is also good to use. Florida, after all, is not North Dakota, you know? There are boats close to EVERYWHERE in Florida. I should add, being from the west, close to me is 4-6 hours car time. What you really want is waterproof glue and tons of plies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbrady Posted May 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 I thought I read here that domestic marine grade was no good also. Am I wrong here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted May 10, 2016 Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 I thought I read here that domestic marine grade was no good also. Am I wrong here? You are correct. The key characteristic of a plywood for SOF frames is the number and integrity of the plies Baltic Birch as well as the even better BS 1088 plywoods will have 7 plies in 1/2". The plies will be knot free and have no seam voids in the layers. American Fir plywood, even marine, will have less plies, knots, voids and patches (footballs). Even MDO will have these imperfections in all layers except the face(s). Just like the skins on these things there is no specifically engineered product for the purpose. Research and trials by Jeff and others are how we get the best we can under the circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbrady Posted May 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 Thank your for the clarification. The hunt for good plywood begins! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Tiger Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 Also, fir plywood always checks. Even the marine stuff. Nature of the fir. Remember to think small, or off the beaten path when looking for plywood. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbrady Posted May 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 I don't want to start a new thread for a bunch of novice questions so here is one thats off the original topic. I need places to tie bow and stern lines for car top hauling. Are the hard to add to a skin boat? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich D Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Before skinning, I drill holes in the gunwale stringers near each end that extend from one side of the frame and out the other side. It's not necessary but lately I have been gluing in a piece of tubing through the holes and sanding the ends flush with the frame. I found some kind of tubing at Menards. Don't remember what it is called but it is about 1/2" OD and 1/4" ID, kind of red in color, and similar to PVC in hardness and flexibility. 10' lengths so I have enough for the next 50 boats. Only cost about $4. After skinning I punch through the skin with a hot tip from a woodburing set and run my toggle ropes through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ehcalum Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Before skinning, I drill holes in the gunwale stringers near each end that extend from one side of the frame and out the other side. It's not necessary but lately I have been gluing in a piece of tubing through the holes and sanding the ends flush with the frame. I found some kind of tubing at Menards. Don't remember what it is called but it is about 1/2" OD and 1/4" ID, kind of red in color, and similar to PVC in hardness and flexibility. 10' lengths so I have enough for the next 50 boats. Only cost about $4. After skinning I punch through the skin with a hot tip from a woodburing set and run my toggle ropes through. Sounds like Pex tubing used for plumbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich D Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Before skinning, I drill holes in the gunwale stringers near each end that extend from one side of the frame and out the other side. It's not necessary but lately I have been gluing in a piece of tubing through the holes and sanding the ends flush with the frame. I found some kind of tubing at Menards. Don't remember what it is called but it is about 1/2" OD and 1/4" ID, kind of red in color, and similar to PVC in hardness and flexibility. 10' lengths so I have enough for the next 50 boats. Only cost about $4. After skinning I punch through the skin with a hot tip from a woodburing set and run my toggle ropes through. Sounds like Pex tubing used for plumbing. Yep, I just looked, that's what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Tiger Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I recently unbuilt a loft in a garage that was built decades ago. These panels were put in new, and were never exposed to sunlight, but they still checked badly. Even "good" "old" plywood will check eventually if it's fir. Check the stamp, though... George Jetson inspected these puppies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 I have several off cuts of various hunks of plywood, pulled from an old cull and tossed in the yard. Exposure 1, exterior, furniture grade with an oak skin, meranti BS-6566 and 1088, okoume 1088 and few other pieces. I show them to customers who want to use a cheaper grade on their boat and it's a pretty simple, visual demonstration for them to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Tiger Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 After years of domestic fir in regular work, and miles and miles of luaun in theatre work, I believe I cried a little when I touched my first piece of 9mm okoume... Although, I must say I am pretty impressed with this BB stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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