seagypsy Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 When Graham and Tom were building Southern Skimmer back in 05 or 06 was there a building thread on the Forum. I've gone from page 70 to page 90 in the forum archives and didn't find it. I don't knowIf I missed it or if it is before or after the pages I looked at. Anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Vacanti Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Here it is: http://messing-about.com/forums/topic/4856-the-new-ec22-design/?hl=%2Bsouthern+%2Bskimmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seagypsy Posted December 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Thank you very much, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Thanks for pulling this up, I had forgotten that we did a build blog. It was great fun to read this again. With hindsight I feel that the optimism has been validated. She did win the EC overall and set a course record plus a number of class wins, not to mention many other races and is still going strong. She is entered in the next EC with a different crew. It also reminds me of my current race against time to have Carlita finished for this years EC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csim Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 The first post of the original build thread suggested "...to be sure this is not going to be a "family- oriented" boat...". Is this still the collective view of those that have built or sailed it? I only ask because a lot of the youtubage makes the boat seem quite manageable in a variety of conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Anderson Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 I can not give you the collective view but I can give you my view. The first post of the original build thread suggested "...to be sure this is not going to be a "family- oriented" boat...". When I discussed building an EC22 with Graham in 2008 he told me that after sailing Southern Skimmer several hundred miles he had concluded that she was not as high strung as he had originally anticipated. A few months after I launched our EC22, Skorpa, I capsized the boat while sailing on an overnighter near the mouth of the Bay River. The wind was 10-15 knots with gusts to 20 or so. My wife and I were sailing quite comfortably with two reefs. I had not sailed any over the winter so this April sail was one of my first sails in our EC22. The wind had eased a little and the sun had come out. My wife was sitting in the center of the boat. I was sitting on the side deck at the tiller having a cup of tea and a bite to eat. The first unusual thing I was aware of was the deck rising up under me at an alarming rate as if it had no intention of stopping at a reasonable angle. Then Sally slid into the water and after a few minutes of clinging to the high side I dropped in as well. The water temp was in the 50s. We were able to get the boat upright, find some dry clothes and get underway. We had about 8 miles of upwind sailing to get to our vehicle. Those were the most difficult 8 miles I have ever sailed. Just before we capsized I had the sails trimmed in tight. I also had the main sheet cleated. I was not paying much attention to our course and most likely the boat's heading drifted off the wind a good bit. That left us pretty vulnerable to an unusually strong gust. Now as we sailed the river back to safety we were both sitting on the side deck. I was holding the main sheet in my hand and paying close attention to our heading. I watched the cats paws bearing down on us. Just before they reached us I braced myself and half expected us to go over again. I prepared to ease the main sheet. The gust hit and the boat heeled a little and our speed increased just a little. But really not much happened. I decided that that gust was just a dud and waited with anxiety as the next gust came down the river, but again the gust had little impact on the boat. Three years of sailing maybe several hundred miles under a variety of conditions I have been building back my confidence. I have recorded speeds of 14 knots but I have been a bit faster when I could not look at the GPS. At those speeds the boat is driving repeatedly into waves. It is exhilarating and frightening at the same time. I expect the boat to plow into the oncoming waves, or threaten to broach, but she doesn't even seem to hesitate. She slices through and glides over and bears down on the next wave. Close hauled against a stiff wind I might expect her to pound, but she just shoulders into the waves like she could carry on forever. I don't really feel comfortable solo when the wind is up. Without a crew on the rail a gust can make her heal up pretty quickly. See above. With a crew available and an alert and modestly skilled skipper she is a very capable boat. Does that mean an EC22 is not a family oriented boat? I have certainly had a lot of family on the boat but I choose the weather conditions carefully and I stay alert. One thing you could say for sure is that a CS20mk3 gives you a lot of the performance of the EC22 in a more family oriented package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Southern Skimmer is still one of my favorite boats. I sailed her hard for many miles and I found her to very well mannered but she is a big boat. I have capsized her three times, the first time, I had gotten so comfortable in her that I walked around to leeward to study the depth of water when an extra puff caught me down wind. The good news is that the cabin prevents her from inverting, she is quite easy to right. The last time I capsized her was when sailing alone, I was up forward putting the anchor out in strong gusty winds. With my weight forward in her fine bow I had reduced her stability when a big gust filled the mainsail and the main sheet caught on something in the cockpit and would not let the sail out and over she went. I am sure that if someone was about it would not have happened. No water gets below in a capsize. Tom Beth and I won the Summer Solstice race on a Saturday. Sunday we had a big family gathering, I took a bot load of kids for a sail. She was fast enough to keep them interested. After a while someone asked about a swim. I stopped her, sheeted the mizzen tight and she was parked. They dived, climbed back over fairly low free-board, dived again for about half an hour. They could go below and dry off. They came ashore all happy and excited about their great time. I started to think "what a great family boat". Beth, Marissa sailed the first Texas 200 in her. She was clearly the fasted boat there. We typically left around 8:00 and reeled the 40 - 50 miles legs off before noon each day. Of course it was mostly in reaching conditions. Our only problem was that we did not always know where to go and spent a bit of time finding the right place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lathrop Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Southern Skimmer is a fun boat to sail, that is certainly true. She can also be a hand full and is not tolerant of inattention by the crew. In my opinion, the number of capsizes mentioned in the last few posts should be considered in deciding whether it should be called a family boat though. I readily second the thought that the CS20 Mk3 makes a better case for family use. The ballast makes it feel far more secure, especially when sailing single and takes little away in performance. Skimmer is not a tender boat at all, which can lead to a false feeling of security because it is also a very powerful boat with lots of sail area compared to other CS designs. Many of my favorite boats have the same characteristic of being unkind to inattention of the helmsperson, so I'm not being critical of the EC22 in this regard. At this time, I regard the MK3 CS boats to be the high point in Grahams small cruising boat designs. Not the best in all ways perhaps, but a happy combination that should provide the greatest satisfaction for most of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Anderson Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 the number of capsizes mentioned in the last few posts should be considered in deciding whether it should be called a family boat though. I think it pays to be careful when drawing conclusions from this sort of data. To be really useful you would need number of capsizes per mile sailed. Better would be number of capsizes per mile sailed under what conditions and with what crew. I don't think that sort of data is available for a wide range of boats so drawing conclusions is pretty tricky. To continue this analysis you would also want data on what happened after the capsize. Was the boat recoverable by the crew? What injuries or damage were incurred? Any sail boat can capsize! The ones that can recover with dignity are quite a bit rarer. Skimmer is not a tender boat at all, which can lead to a false feeling of security because it is also a very powerful boat with lots of sail area compared to other CS designs. Tom hits the nail right on the head here summing up what I was trying to say in my earlier post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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