Cs20.3 #4 Rollover Rig . .

[Pete McCrary]

Jay showed me photos of the rig he used to "roll" his "Southern Express." Attached is my sketch of his approach. Jay's shop ceiling was quite high and he used some scaffolding to support the overhead spreader -- whereas my shop has exposed rafters 8' above the floor. The lifting loop needs to be adjustable so that the boat may be lifted off her cradle and (when rolled) down onto saw horses or other supports. Jay had a "come along" for that purpose. At our local True Value hardware store I found that the pulley tackle of a "Deer Lift" would do the job -- and at a cost of only $20 (for the entire package).

The Deer Lift is rated at 440 lbs. The Cs20.3 specs show her bare hull weight as 650 lbs. The tension on the loop will be just half, or 325 lbs -- well under the lift's limit. With a x5 purchase, the manual pull will only be about 65 lbs -- which I think I can handle. Jay found the boat's CG to be just aft of the cabin bulkhead.

[PAR]

I've repeatedly found most spend a lot of head scratching and worry over something that takes 15 minutes and goes off without a hitch. Of the folks here that have rolled their boats over, how many found it more difficult than they worried it might be?

 

My point is there's a lot of different ways to do it and most work without damage or control (the big issue). Think it out, look at other setups, YouTube videos, etc. and I'll bet you a beer it goes off without much trouble. The only ones I've seen go bad where rushed or otherwise compromised somehow.

 

I find it's better to hoist from one side, get the boat to the balance point, then reset to lower it down into the new position. This lets you scoot the boat over, if you don't have much room and take a break to remove the building jig and setup the cradle or trailer.

 

Lastly, Don't trust simple tackle. Put an extra fall or two in it, so you can overcome friction, twisted lines, etc. and insure you have a way of tieing it off in mid roll, just in case you have to rethink about something.

[Pete McCrary]

I just realized that the sketch of the rollover rig fails to account for the fact that the sheerstrakes will have already been installed. AND;

Just as I'm doing this I received an excellent suggestion from Alan: he emailed ... "I have had good success rolling over my core sound 17 by first hoisting the front half up to an anchor point by its bow eye. Then I just manhandled the back end. In your case, you could do the same and then use the tackle for the stern. The bow eye is plenty strong for this purpose ... It has the advantage of only having a single tackle strap setup to manage and the bow can be raised and lowered easily as needed."

I would note that it also has greater stability, reduced loads, and (perhaps) could be done singlehandedly. Alan's email reminded me that I used that approach to roll the Penobscot 14 that I built in 2003. That boat weighed only about 200 lbs but was in a shop not wide enough for a roll on the floor.

Later, I'll submit another sketch showing a "bow eye & stern loop" rollover setup.

[PAR]

A few well fed friends with a promise of free beer, will easily get the boat rolled over in a few minutes.

[Chick Ludwig]

I used PAR's method with a hot dog lunch and soda or sweet tea rather than beer. It was a "snap". I, too, fretted over the roll over. My shop is both too low and too narrow to hoist and roll. I built my cradle with large castors so it could be easily moved around, so we just rolled it out of the shop, lifted it to where it was on it's side on the cradle with some old cushions under it, then lifted it again and layed it over, with the cushions again protecting it. I was prepared with "frames" cut to the contour of the deck and cockpit to hold the boat in an upside-down mode. The guys held the boat up one end at a time while I screwed the "frames" on.

 

My boat is a CS-17 Mk-3 rather than the 20, but I don't thing the bigger boat would be much heavier. Nothing that an extra "well fed friend" or two couldn't handle.

I totally finished the bottom including paint and SS keel strip while the boat was turned over---only gonna do this exercise ONCE.

[PAR]

I literally used a few old ladies to do the final roll on the CS-17. A 57 year old, a 55 year old and a 76 year old plus myself. It was "cackling hen day" which is what I must tolerate, when they're over to play cards. You can't hear yourself think, just cackling and clucking continuously until I find something to do outside. Of course, it's always on Saturday or Sunday, therefore I'm not watching any games in peace. So, I put them to work and we lifted it off the building cradle and placed it down on some blankets, spread on the grass. I wheeled the cradle out and the trailer in, then we lifted and carried it over, dropping it on the trailer. It took about 5 minutes and I got to shut up the hens for a few minutes.

[Jknight611]

I Pete, my rollover structure is very similar to yours, but I have a snatch block in the horizontal run, (along side the horizontal spreader) and the lift is applied there.  With the lift device as your sketch shows the boat will have to slide in the straps.  I thought it would be better if the straps "rolled" with the boat, with no relative motion between the boat and strap.

 

Sorry about the delay, I have been deep in the GOM with little internet access.

[IsZataRock]

Graham is definitely right about the worry versus execution time ratio in my case, anyway.  

 

The biggest problem I saw with the "roll-over by hand on pads" method was the narrow confines of my garage.  But that can be worked around. I love the video of Alan flipping the CS 15.

 

If anyone is considering a suspended loop like Pete was considering, note that the tackle won't go through the pulleys at the top.  And I didn't like blocks laying on the hull which they will do when rolling the other direction.  Also the top blocks don't have to line up vertically with the gunwales.   The "vertical" parts of the loop won't be vertical during the whole rotation anyway.  Finally, don't underestimate the load on the top blocks.  It's roughly 50-60% greater than the vertical load on the loop rope due to the tension on the rope between the two top blocks in combination with the tension in the "vertical" part of the loop.

 

I used two loops with a single piece of rope on each end of the boat: Go around the boat to one of the blocks,  go around the boat a second time and go to the second block.  Hope that makes sense.  This reduced the load on the rope, the blocks and the tackle.  I also used climbing prussiks to hold the rope after I tensioned with a three-part tackle.  (I have a CS17.3)  A prussik knot works almost as well and doesn't have to be padded when it contacts the boat.

 

All that said, Alan's bow eye method sounds great.  It's close to the longitudinal center of gravity so the boat shouldn't flop badly during the rotation.  And one person can probably handle the weight in most cases.  Just be sure you get a good grip on the hull close to the transom.  Rubber-coated gloves?

 

Bottom line is: get some help!

 

Hal

[Chick Ludwig]

Back when I had a shop with enough height, I used a lift on the bow eye, and a chain hoist, block and tackle or come along on each corner of the transom to stern eyes that I always had on my boats. I could do the turn over by myself.

 

I'd lift the whole boat off the cradle, then move the cradle. I'd lift the bow enough to clear the floor while turning. I'd raise one back corner and lower the other until the boat was hanging with all the weight on the raised corner. then I'd start lifting the other corner while pushing or pulling the boat in the direction I wanted it to turn. Continue lifting the low corner until the boat is level and ready to set back on the cradle that has been modified to hold it upside down. Sounds harder than it is.

[PAR]

Well, I have it for the backyard builder's roll over needs. It's the Harbor Freight (yeah I know what I've said about their stuff) 120 VAC power winch.

 

 

I'll try to keep the post short, but a couple of weeks ago, my well pump took a dump. I checked everything, the capacitors, the pressure switch, lead shorts to the motor, expansion tank bladder, etc., but damn, it had to come out of the ground. Looking at the casing, it was obvious the pump was dangling at the end of 1.5" galvanized pipe. It was 25 years old and due, but how deep. My neighbor said it was likely about 100', but my other half's brother said it was 250'. Shiittt, 250' of 1.5" galvinized pipe, really. This stuff weighs 3.6 pounds per foot, so 900 pounds just in pipe, with a 70 pound motor hanging on the end, not counting couplers or any friction in the casting as it comes up.

 

I knew the pipe would be in 21' long sections, each 76 pounds all by themselves, so I figured I unscrew them as they came out of the casing. No such luck, they were rusted pretty tight, so the 'sawsall came out for a quick job of it. I used four 12' long 2x4 legs, with a 5' long horizontal brace at the bottom of each pair of legs. At the top of this tapered well derick, I screwed two 2x4's to the bottom of 2 pieces of 3/4" plywood, maybe a 2' x 4' rectangle. I used two more pieces of this 3/4" plywood to brace the sides to prevent it from racking and bolted the winch to the plywood, using a length of "UniStrut" I had lying around (just like the picture above).

 

Long story short, this winch saved my butt and hoisted 170' of pipe out of the hole. I cut 20' length off as it came out and sure enough the pump was seized and cooked the motor. I got a new 2 HP motor and 12 stage pump (900 bucks later) and figured I'd use PVC to put it back in the casing. I screwed the pump assembly to the end of the first pipe, lowered it down, glued on the next piece, lowered it down, glued on the next piece and lowered it about 10' when it just stopped. I pushed on it and sure enough, it was wedged in the casing, which must have had a slight bend in it as it was drilled (not unusual). I lifted it (damn I loved that winch) and dropped it from 3' then again from 5', but it was jamming tight, so I gave up for the day, because my sciatic nerve was pretty pissed at me anyway.

 

After talking to a plumber buddy of mine (how I learned a bent casing wasn't all that uncommon) I lifted the pipe up as high as the winch derick permit (about 10') and hoping the pipe wouldn't break, I let it free fall. It hesitated a bit as it got to the bend, but it punched through and the rest went uneventfully, except for the price my back and sciatic were giving me.

 

My point is, I got this winch to solve this problem, as there was no way I could get in there with a truck to haul it out conventionally, without having to cut a few dozen trees. The estimates I got where in the 4k to 5k range, so I remember distinctly telling the other half, "how hard could it be" (I'm really an ass sometimes). I'm literally still recovering from this escapade, but at least I'm not numb in the leg anymore. The winch is fairly heavy (40 pounds), but portable, which was the point and it has a 1,100 pound vertical pull, unlike a lot of automotive winches which have tremendous ratings, but only horizontally. I got it on sale for $140 bucks and it saved my butt and as I was lying down, still trying to find a comfortable position (not much good sleep recently) I thought of this thread.

 

Yeah, it's a $140 bucks, but man, you push the damn button and up the whatever (boat, car engine, your mother in law, etc.) is off the ground. This one doesn't have a freewheeling feature, just an auto brake. The switch looks like it'll wear out pretty quick and the hoist speed isn't variable, though I'll bet I can fix that with a 'pot. 

 

Mount it to the trusses in your garage or build a stiff frame to hold it up. I hoisted very near the max this puppy could haul on a 2x4, four legged gantry, literally all day and it didn't bark once. It's a 1,000 watt motor, so a heavy gear set does the work, which is what will likely fail after the switch takes a dump, but for $140 bucks, you don't have to offer free beer to anyone to get your boat rolled over. Keep the beer and pat yourself on the back for a good boat rolling job, while you sip away.

 

Food for thought . . .

[Action Tiger]

As a sufferer of two ruptured discs, I can offer some good stretches and exercises for that sciatic. As for sleeping, if it's lumbar related, try face down with a pillow under your pelvis. Sounds dumb and weird, I know, but it works. I spent a long time sleeping in 15 minute bursts before I started to get feeling in my leg again and get healthy sleep. Now I always sleep on my stomach with my feet hanging off the bed.

Glad you got your well fixed.

My guilty pleasure from the Harbor is c clamps and sliding bar clamps. Good for the money.

[PAR]

I've found some days some positions work, while the next they don't. I've used pillows and usually do hang my feet, but it was so bad, I couldn't do much. Tonight is just one of those nights and I'll eventually get exhausted enough to pass out.

 

I too have a number of Harbor Freight clamps. I consider them disposable and beat the crap out of them, before the serrations on the back of the bar wear out (they do pretty quickly). I have some of their small C clamps, but C clamps need to be stiff and theirs aren't and wrack or twist under heavy load, so I have good ones for the serious work. A few years ago, I had a helper in the shop count all the clamps and he lost count at over 100 and was pissed that he had to recount. I mercifully stopped him once he got to 20 or so. I just needed to know if I had enough to do both sheer clamps at the same time, not the actual number, but part of me couldn't resist when he lost count. 

[Action Tiger]

The hamstring is the key to relieving the pain, I've found. Inordinate amounts of stretching and (yuck) core work. Try crossing the bad side leg on the top of the good side leg, foot on the thigh, like an old guy on the subway reading a paper. It's a relatively comfortable sleeping position, too. Also, a hammock has worked well for me, like the old British Navy slung belowdecks type...

I went from partial paralysis, spasms, and hot/cold flashes in the leg, back to ironman shape in two short years. Back damage is always pretty permanent, though. Stretch, stretch, stretch, and strengthen your front. I feel your pain, and wish you a speedy return to normalcy, whatever that is.

As for c clamps, yeah, I meant the 3 and 4 inch ones. 1.99 on sale usually, and the 12 inch sliding bar clamps, which are the same price on sale, sometimes. I'm small time, but I do got a hundred or so clamps, because you can never have enough. Never have enough lines or blocks, either.

Sorry for the hijack to talk backs.

[Chick Ludwig]

Pete, this is the stern eye (bow eye) that I was talking about. You'll see it in the corner of the transom.

[keen2buildagain]

G-Day men,

I thought I would put my 2 cents in re the turnover thing...I am building an OB-20 and found the easiest way to turn her over was with a few mates and a cantilever style frame that levers off the legs of the strong back. It was the easiest way I could figure out how to do it. After we unscrewed the legs from the SB, the whole thing stood up by itself, then with a gentle shove we pushed her over onto the frame (outrigger), up vertically and over onto my swag which was under the chine...........easy! Then we picked her up and put her onto pre cut supports that sat on the SB framework. the whole thing took 1/2 hour at the most and most of that time was taken up with who's shout it was going to be after the event. Honestly, it went without a hitch.

[Hirilonde]

It was surely easy for the guy holding the camera  

[Don Silsbe]

Pete-- I don't see how you're going to get that block and tackle to pass through the rafter pulley, once you've got it lifted off the cradle.  I'm talking about the loop drawn in red.  For me, the hardest part is getting the boat up to the vertical balance point.  The second part, setting her down from this point, is the easy part.  If I were doing this, I'd take the strap extending from the block and tackle, go under the hull, and connect it to the far gunwale.  This would take care of the difficult lift.  The rest I would leave up to friends, recruited with pizza & beer, of course.

[Don Silsbe]

Keen2buildagain-- Here in the States, we're only allowed one "mate" by law.  And frankly, that's all I can afford, anyway!  LOL

[Designer]

Being Bi-lingual, I thought that a little translation was necessary. When speaking Strine, the word "shout" means " who is buying the next round of beer".

 

She is looking good Trev.

[Action Tiger]

Shout. That's a great one. I like it.

Oh, and yes she is quite lovely. Good on ya, mate!