ecgossett Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'm getting ready to install my new rubrails on my CS17. 3/4" thick fir.. Should I use 1 1/4" flathead screws, or 1 1/2"? Inwale is 3/4", and 1/4" of plywood on each side... I'm just worried that with the bungs 1 1/2" will be close to going through. Oh preferences on square drive versus Phillips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Ludwig Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'd use 1 1/4". Be careful not to drive them in to tight, you could crack your rubrail with the taper on the flathead screws. Square drive is more "positive". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 The general rule of thumb is at least as much thread in the piece you hold on to, as the thickness of the piece you're screwing down. So if you have a 3/4" thick piece, you'll need at least 3/4" in the planking/inwale interface to hold it down. Since you're countersinking and assuming bunging over them, you'll bury the fasteners at least a 1/4", so you can decrease this "bury" depth a bit. If you use a countersink bit, you're not going to split anything. If you just let the head self bury as you drive it into a pilot hole, yeah, some splitting might occur. With countersunk fasteners, you need three holes: a pilot, a clearance and a countersink. Assuming you've used a 3/4" thick inwale and have 1/4" planking, you have a full inch of bury to work with, so 1.5" screws will work fine, though 1.25" screws will serve as well, without the potential of popping out on the inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecgossett Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I cut sapele bungs for a good look. For counter sinking I have tapered countersink bits. On the screws I dip them in toilet bowl wax to ease going in, and protect inside of the wood from corrosion/rot/rust poisoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecgossett Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 How far up do you guys think I should run my new rubrails? I have an extra 12 inches to play with on each. My previous ones where 1/8" down from deck, I'm thinking these should be 1/16 to flush. Thoughts? The only thing in way slightly is anchor roller that I need to avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 I like to see rubs flush with the deck, so water will shed without obstruction. Some like to lower them a touch, but I think this exposes the deck edge to potential damage, as it's not protected and this corner is relatively soft. This usually requires you mount them slightly raised, so they can be planed or sanded flush. Since this is a replacement rail and you don't want to be cutting into the existing deck with belt sanders or planes, mount a sacrifical stip of 1/8" or 1/4" plywood along the deck edge and plane to this surface. Later, you can lower the rub flush to the deck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Ludwig Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 I glass over the edge of the deck onto the hull, so the deck edge is radiused about 1/4 inch to allow the glass to lay properly. I set my rubrail down at the bottom of the radius, so it's about 1/4 inch below the deck edge. If you have a sharp corner on your deck to hull joint, I agree with PAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 I too 'glass decks, which requires the edge radius. I use this to advantage when the rub goes on, as it makes a great caulk line gap, for the bedding. Again, I set the rub flush, which leaves the radius behind the rub material. Bedding ooze out is smeared along this groove, making a nice, flush and smooth installation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecgossett Posted August 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 What do you radius do u guys route for bottom and top edges of rub rail? Is hand sanding it better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Ludwig Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Not sure I understand what you are asking. If it's the radius on the wood rubrail itself, I just use a 1/4" radius cut with my router. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 I route the deck flush to the topsides to get a really sharp corner. Then attach the rubrail flush. I don't glass anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 The edge of the deck is rounded over, so a sheathing can go around the corner without puckering. This leaves the radius facing the top, back side of the rub rail. This can be filled so it's squared off again, when you fair and smooth the deck, prior to paint, but most just use this shallow trench as a caulk line. The rub rails themselves also have some rounded over edges outboard, though commonly leave the inboard face to land square against the hull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Ludwig Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 What he said.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Anderson Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Obviously there is more than one way to skin this cat, but I am with Dave I don't remember glassing the deck. Depends on your priorities. Glass on the deck is extra weight, expense and labor if you think you need the extra strength and durability fine. It doesn't sound like Ed is running glass around the deck to hull joint so rounding over the deck seems a bit of a mute point. Just to complicate things I did put my rub rails on without permanent fasteners. I used temporary fasteners to hold things together until the epoxy ( G-Flex) set up. It has been three years no problems though I have not had a significant impact. I did start worrying about the rub rail and put a single permanent fastener at the forward end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 If the deck isn't sheathed, then yes, you'll have a crisp edge along the sheer. It'll be eased slightly so paint can stick, but that's all. In this case then yep, the two (boat and rub) land relatively square with each other, over bedding. Some glue down the rail, but I don't knowing it'll need to be removed some day. Since it's removable, I provide a caulk line, between the deck and the rub, but a glued one doesn't need this. I'd still make it flush with the deck (rolling bevel to match the crown), to protect the edge edge and so it'll shed water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecgossett Posted August 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Is it worth putting stain on rails? Right now they are tight grain for. Was thinking about mahogany to match tiller and thwart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 The aestedics are purely subjective. I generally don't, mostly because they'll get beat up and blotchy when repaired if stained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnjost Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Ed. I used mahogany for mine and attached with stainless screws, and set them in polysulfide sealant (mahogany colored). While I promised myself that I would fill all the screw holes with bungs, I was too anxious to get out on the water while our short summer lasted. I think they look good as is and function well when rubbing up against a dock. No visible damage so far (only 5 sails so far). I did not need to steam the mahogany as it took the bend forward just fine. I put a radius on the deck and placed them just below the radius. Best function of them seems to be "Oh Jesus" handles for when the boat gets caught in a puff with the skipper responding a little slow! Good luck. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Tiger Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I'm finishing a little thing I dreamt up, and decided at the last minute to "canvas" the deck, but because it's a little 12 foot goober, I used muslin instead. I wanted to try the titebond technique was in WB magazine a while back. It's pretty cool. Anywho, why I'm here is I'm putting "rub rails" on my little punt-o as well, and am intrigued with your flush mount/caulk gap method PAR. When you apply rails this way, how do you keep the googe from the crack overflowing onto deck and rail? Masking? I'm curious, because the rails would look nicer (in my application) if they were flush with the deck top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 If the surface to be cleaned of excess goop is going to be hard to clean, then mask. Most beddings clean with mineral spirits, so if really smooth I don't bother masking at all. I just clean up as soon as the fasteners are in whether I mask or not. I then remove masking immediately to see if I have any more mess to clean up. I use a bedding color closest to the lighter of the 2 sides of the bedded surfaces (deck and rub rail in this case). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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