Jump to content

Which saw?


pwillems

Recommended Posts

I'm just getting setup to start on a SpinDrift 11N and think I am going to splash on a new saw. I already have a monster Triton 235mm circular saw, but don't want to be attempting any freehand curve cuts with that one. Scares the bejeezus out of me, and besides, it's mounted in it's workbench as a table/crosscut saw.

I'm hesitating between a quality jigsaw or a small Ryobi 150 mm cordless circular saw.

 

What should I get?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I, fortunately have both, but it really depends on what you will use it for over the long term-  I use my jig saw all the time (which is a corded Bosch that replaced a worthless Dewalt), but for long gradual curves like hull panels I rech for a circular saw with the blade set at just enough depth to get through the material.  That seems to work better for me than a jigsaw for those types of cuts.

 

JP

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What JP said.

 

You could probably do most of the cuts with a circular saw, except for forward sections of the bottom panels, plus the forward bulkhead, which has enough of a curve to it a circular saw might bind in the cut. So would probably need a jigsaw for those. Those could also be cut on a bandsaw, as could the knees and breast hook. You will likely need a jigsaw or bandsaw to do the CB and rudder parts.

 

In any event, when cutting sides and bottom panels, do cut them both together to create exact mirror image duplicates and for best accuracy, cut slightly outside your line, then plane back to it, and again, plane them together.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I could only have one I'd pick a good jigsaw.  Even though you can get a nicer gradual curve with a circular saw you can't get a tight curve at all with it.  With a jigsaw you can cut just outside the line and clean the edge up afterwards with a plane.  That way you can get a nice gradual curve and the jigsaw can still cut a tight curve or an inside corner that a circular saw can't cut.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would opt for the circle saw. I think it is a more useful tool over a broader spectrum. You can cut really tight curves if you bend a little more set in the teeth... Any curves too tight for the circle saw can be cut with a small drill bit and compass/coping saw.

I think, especially when cutting paired panels, the jig saw blade will wander more, in a vertical plane, with a greater chance for slanted edges and mismatched pieces.

I have a jig saw, but use my worm drive circle saw more than any other power tool I own.

Just another opinion...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As the post above just stated... It's all a matter of opinion and preference.

 

For me, it all depends on what I am cutting.  If the curves are tight then a jig saw is what I use.  My experience is that cordless jigsaws just don't have the speed and power for smooth cuts.  If I need a jigsaw I use a corded one. 

 

That said, however, I have had very very good experiences in cutting shallow curves (larger than a radius of 4ft or so) in plywood with the saw attachment on the Black and Decker Matrix 20V tool.  The carbide blade is only 3 3/8" in diameter, quite thin, and extends 3/4" below the platen.   It will cut well in plywood that is 1/2" or thinner and with the 4 amp-hr battery will last for about 30ft of cuts in 1/2" ply. I have two batteries in case the first one dies before I am done for the day.  It is also much lighter than a corded 7" circular saw or even a 5" cordless saw.  I could easily make cuts that were at shoulder height. 

 

I used the Matrix to cut the plywood sides and bottom on the 21' Sharpie I just finished.  It was a lot faster than a jig saw and resulted in much smoother curves that required very little planing to get a nice fit.   Before I had the matrix I used a jig saw and that resulted in wavy curves... so I had much more planing to do.  Also I could not control the lateral pressure on the saw on large sheets of plywood.  This sometimes resulted in the blade not cutting perpendicular to the plywood sheet. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree on the cordless saws being gutless, generally. I only use cordless drills and an impact driver. If you go the cordless route, get lithium ion, as they'll hold a charge longer and charge from dead faster Always have two batteries, one on "ready alert" status. A jigsaw ill prove more versatile than a circular saw in boat building. It'll reach into places that a circular saw can't, in fact it's the tool to use, to finish cramped corner circular saw cuts. If you're building one boat, then just get a reasonable home owner quality jigsaw. Black & Decker makes a $30, a $40 and a $50 jig saw. The $30 saw is junk, but the $40 and $50 will do for a small boat. It'll last the build and you don't have to have much invested. If you plan on more boats/builds, get a quality jigsaw, as the difference is night and day. I have a Bosch that I haven't killed yet. Porter Cable makes a moderately priced good one too. They have a $70, $90 and a $150 dollar saws of much better quality, but they're also twice as much for the base model. I think Porter Cable makes the best of the modest priced tools, but Bosch has stepped up in recent years to enter this market too. Dewalt is made by Black & Decker now, so both of these are junk, if asked to be more then a home owner grade. Ryobi isn't much better, though just a little. The Triton 235mm circular saw is a nice piece, but there's just not a lot of need for a 9 1/4" saw on most small boat builds. Maybe it's best left to be a faux table saw, besides they're heavy bitches.

 

Most of the time a jig saw is just a "get it close" tools and certainly this is the case for a circular saw. Wavy edges, grain tear out, etc. are the usual reasons. The tool I use most is the belt sander, which cleans up the drunken boat builder cut lines. Lastly, a cheap saw will perform much better with good blades. Yeah, you can get a dozen cheap blades fro the price of one good blade, but the good blade will cut truer and faster, long after you've burned up a handful of the cut rate blades. The same is true of sand paper. I use ceramic and cubic zirconia papers and they'll out cut a half a box of aluminum oxide paper.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seconding what PAR said about the blades.  I have an old Dewalt circular saw that I bought when I first became a home owner, and I used it for years with the blade that came with it.  It was kind of scary to use.  I bought a good blade as a "thank you" to a friend who helped me out a lot cutting narrow strips on his band saw.   He really liked the blade, so I got one for myself.  The new blade makes a huge difference in my ability to control the saw and stay on the line.  There are some real pros on the forum, and I'm NOT one of them, but my opinion is that you get the most circular saw for your buck (sawbuck?) if you get a modest saw with a good blade.

 

For trimming down to the line, I love my little block plane - but only when it's sharp.

 

Bob

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, I will have to beg to disagree.  But, then this is what is great about these discussions.  One can get many different opinions and make up their own minds. 

 

Not all cordless saws are "gutless."  I was referring only to cordless jigsaws.  As I mentioned I have had really good experience in building boats using the B+D Matrix small circular saw with plywood.  I also use the Ryobi 1+ (18V) circular saw with a 5 1/2" blade.  It will cut great through plywood that is more than 1/2" and it much lighter than the standard 71/2" plug in.  As I get older I find I need to use tools that weigh less.  It even cuts through a 2x6 or 2x8 without any problems.  The Ryobi 1+ miter saw is also great for cutting all those little pieces that go into building a boat, and it is light enough to move from one end of the boat to the other. 

 

The cordless tools have one big advantage, I can have all of them ready to use without creating a hazard with all the extension cords around the boat I am building.  Also, it lets me build my boats in an outside boat shed without having to snake a 12 gauge cord through the yard every time I go out and work.  The Ryobi 1+ system has several tools I have found very useful in building boats.  In addition to the miter saw, I use the router for rounding over stock lumber and the planer for fine touch ups.  Note: These tools let me work inside the cabin when I decide that my original ideas really won't work, and I don't have to disassemble everything and bring it back into the shop.

 

 Yes cordless tools are not as powerful as the corded models, but more than adequate for building boats, especially smaller boats that don't require massive lumber.  I have even found a 16" cordless chain saw (40volt) that lets me go into the forest to cut my firewood without waking my neighbors.  My corded tools end up sitting on the shelf and may get used once or twice a year.  I have not used my corded circular saw in over one year and my corded router has been sitting idle for much more than that.  

 

And, yes, having good quality saw blades is critical when using cordless tools.  I have found that the circular saws by Freud (Diablo brand) are quite a bit thinner than the usual less expensive blades.  But, because they are thinner the battery operated saws don't have to work as hard.  

 

Finally, I agree that lithium batteries are the only ones to use.  The older cordless tools that used the Nickel-cadmium batteries suffered from the fact that the batteries were the problem. NiCads self discharged fairly rapidly and they had a "memory."  If you charged them up without draining the battery completely, the next time you would have less power available. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use a older high end Dewalt that is a good jigsaw. I have used a lot of different jigsaws and the winner to me is the Makita, hands down for ease of use, also it doesn't have a grip type handle which I thought odd until I used it. It's not a expensive saw and you grip it around the motor housing, I know it sounds weird but it is a pleasure to work with.

People are passionate about their tools for all kinds of reasons. My dad hates anything Dewalt and I wouldn't bring anything Ryobi home for free.

 

A funny story ( to me ) Someone broke into a old historic house that a friend and I were restoring and stole most of our tools, about $3500 total . That's not the funny part! They took the Dewalt, makita and Bosch tools and left the cheap Porter cable, Black and Decker and Ryobi tools. I am not kidding, they knew what tools they could get the most for and I guess they could only carry so much.

 

I do like the higher end Porter cable tools, they hold up well, their cheap lines are, well CHEAP. They do make a fine fixed mount router, biscuit joiner, and belt sanders. But to be fair, on the cheap side of their line, their 5 inch orbital sander has held up well for me.

 

Most contractors I have worked around that use their tools daily, use Milwaukee, Dewalt or Makita tools.

 

Back to the point, a circular saw does a great job of long sweeping curves such as hull panels but the jigsaw does have its place where it shines also.

You can buy a Makita circular saw and a Makita jigsaw for less than $200 total and have decent tools, not top of the line but, tools that you won't want to throw across the shop.

 

I agree with Par both are a get it in the ball park saws.

 

Ken is 100% right on using a plane. I ALWAYS screw the panels together to make a mirror match, it is amazing what the eye can pick up on if your honest with yourself. The first thing I look at on a B&B butterfly type boat is the bow. How the panels mirror each other and how smooth and crisp the transition from the bottom to the side is?, how smooth  that transition is?, is it a mirror image from one side to the other?, does the sheer look the same?. I have never got this perfect, but close. You must plane the panels to a mirror image of each other, be very careful with the sander at the transition from bottom to side and trust what your eye is telling you, to have a fighting chance at a really sharp hull.

 

No matter what saw you use, the bench plane will be your best friend in the end.

 

Scott

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just about everyone has weighed in, so why not me.  I have lots of tools including both circular and jig saws.  Both are useful but the jigsaw will do everything and the circular saw is more limited.  In awkward areas, the jigsaw can be worked at arm length one handed where a skillsaw would be both useless and dangerous.  I built a house and a couple boats and furniture with my first Bosch and gave it to my son where it still works after over 35 years.  The second one is still going also.  The only circular competition (somewhat) to the orbital jigsaw are the small ones which are very limited in cutting depth and power. 

 

As for cutting straight lines, that is much more in the operator than the tool.  Blades are available for the Bosch that do things that a circular saw is totally useless for.  Sanders are the most overused tool in the shop but are vital is much of the work anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it was plywood, and came from a pattern with the plans or I had to pattern it, and it is part of my Lapwing, I cut it out with my 30 year old Bosch barrel grip jig saw.  And I have just about every other option available.  There were moments when something else might have made the cut a little faster.  But my jig saw was already set up, so I couldn't be bothered getting another tool out.  I don't think I touched my circular saw at all. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I re read the original question, and if the choice is a nice jigsaw, or a small blade battery circle saw, and we are ONLY going to cut plywood, I'd go jigsaw, too.

Mine is an old Bosch with all the switches and strokes and whatnot. Awesome tool.

I would still keep a circle saw for general use, though, because it can rip dimensional lumber, and cut part way through something, like rabbets and dadoes.

No batteries for me. I have a few corded tools and too many hand tools. But I am a dilettante without deadlines...

And, yes, practice, practice, practice! whichever saw you buy, get a cheap sheet of ply to practice cutting on. Draw weird shapes, cut them out, paint them, and sell them as yard art. Or don't. Get comfortable with your tools, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Comfort with any tool, is opposite to the inverse of the square root, on the level of experience with it.

 

OK Paul,

 

Like most probably did, I just assumed I knew what you meant by that.  The second time, it looked kind of weird.  Then I wrote the math equation and it actually does seem possible although it contains a double negative that makes it so.  Not sure about the exponent though as that might be different for each worker. 

 

I used to be indecisive.  Now, I'm not so sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fortunately a friend of mine is a professional carpenter.
I can borrow his Mafell Handsaw if i need it.
It is small but powerfull. It makes wunderful curved cuts because of his small 120 mm Ø blade.
And because of its powerfull motor he uses his bigger Handsaw really seldom.
It is very handy in its box and for straight cuts the guide is very helpfull.
The qualtiy is top class.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was thinking about this issue last night, when I was supposed to be coaching a baseball game.

Circle saws cut MUCH better on outside, or convex, cuts than they do on the inside, or concave, side of the curve. In the case of tight outside curves, the cut can be made with a series of tangential, or vector, cuts, which can get you close enough to the line for planing.

I started out building skateboard ramps a few decades ago, which are basically inside-out boats, especially when you add corners and make a wooden bowl! I've had to reason out a lot of curved cuts in plywood, usually due to lack of funding. The old should I buy tools or wood problem...

And don't be afraid of a handsaw. A small drill bit and a keyhole saw (homemade from a sawzall type blade, if need be) can cut pretty tight circles.

I'm also thinking about one or two boat type builders. If you get addicted to building, you will never own enough saws, or clamps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.