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Thinking about taking a saw to my CS-17....


MisterMoon
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I'm getting closer and closer to pulling the trigger on some major surgery on Bandaloop. I'm tiring of open boat cruising and don't have the time, the space, or the budget to build a 20 mark 3. Instead, I'm contemplating putting a small Bolger Birdwatcher-style slot-top cuddy to create a dry and comforatable space for one person and two in a pinch. Here's a basic drawing of what I'm thinking....

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To start, I will build a bulkhead aft of the center thwart. All of the seat tanks forward of that bulkhead will cut down 6" lower, leaving the fronts of the tanks as longitudinal web stringers. The entire area will be then be decked over with access hatches to what storage space remains in the bilge. This should give two berths nearly 7 feet long, albeit one will be narrower due to the off center centerboard case. (The dashed line shows the original seat top height, the solid line shows the new sole.) 

I will cut away the forward deck to the forward bulkhead. The cabin shown has 39" height aft and will have 22" wide slot top running the full length of the cabin that will be covered with fabric to keep out the water. The cuddy will have oarports and a removable bench to allow rowing from the forward position. The oarports will seal with removable gasketed panels using the details drawn by Phil Bolger on his Birdwatcher.  

 

I plan to redo the centerboard to seal the top and get rid of all the water that comes in that way. 

 

Aft of the cabin I plan to build a bridgedeck that will stand 18" high above the cabin sole to create foot room for the sleeping crew. (This drawing shows the bridgedeck forward of the mizzen mast. It will be aft with the mizzen mast step boxed in and draining into the cockpit.) 

 

I've got to work out where to put my external fuel tank which is currently under the center thwart, but I think I can sacrifice a little space under one side of the bridge deck to make it work.

 

I think I can do this and only add 40 lbs to the boat, basically the weight of 1.5 sheets of 6 mm plywood and the glass and resin. There will be a stringer or two to strengthen the top of the bridgedeck and the cabin roof. The rest will all be stitch and tape. 

Next step is to mock up as much as I can in 1/8 doorskin duct tape and take real measurements to see if the ergonomic work out like I think they will. 

 

One issue I've already discovered how/where to stow my 9' oars? Other long things like boathooks and paddles are also problematic... 

Thoughts? Opinions? 

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Mister Moon,

 As you probably know I did something along the same lines, and I'm glad I did. But I did run into  a couple of things.

 When I added the cabin I didn't realize how much of an issue there would be regarding the original seat height. As it turned out I had to saw off most of the original seat to get enough room to sleep on my side. I had previously cut through the forward bulkhead, (filled the lower portion with pour in place flotation),and  that gave me the extra room to extend to a full length berth. I just did the starboard side as a test, and then I need to decide if I really have to do the same to the port side. I like the idea of an enclosed seat/locker inside the cabin and the port side gap is wide enough to let that side serve as a full length quarter berth.

I am using sockets and cross braces to suspend the berth decks on. They are both short enough to fit along the hull,adjacent to the mast, when I am not using them. And the cross braces fit in the seat easily. At the aft end of the berths I have shorter deck panels.Those floors are cut at about 24" so I can stand on the  shorter version in the companionway, and not be standing directly on the hull. I'm building the bracing now for the aft ends of the deck panels, and forward lip of the shorter panels . That extends both berths to over 6'. in the last picture the head would go where the anchor is now sitting.

These pix show the existing port berth, the now shorter starboard berth when cut to size, the new starboard berth, and the two berths, with shorter sections.

I've also got a bridge deck aft of the cabin. I have two 32 AH gel cell batteries in the port side with the charge controller, and I haven't really designated the starboard side compartment for anything specific yet. Might be the galley. I built the compartments with the same style of hatch top as the cockpit hatches so things are nice and dry.

I'll get some pix of the bridge deck tomorrow.

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Mister Moon,

 As you probably know I did something along the same lines, and I'm glad I did. But I did run into  a couple of things.

 When I added the cabin I didn't realize how much of an issue there would be regarding the original seat height. As it turned out I had to saw off most of the original seat to get enough room to sleep on my side. I had previously cut through the forward bulkhead, (filled the lower portion with pour in place flotation),and  that gave me the extra room to extend to a full length berth. I just did the starboard side as a test, and then I need to decide if I really have to do the same to the port side. I like the idea of an enclosed seat/locker inside the cabin and the port side gap is wide enough to let that side serve as a full length quarter berth.

I am using sockets and cross braces to suspend the berth decks on. They are both short enough to fit along the hull,adjacent to the mast, when I am not using them. And the cross braces fit in the seat easily. At the aft end of the berths I have shorter deck panels.Those floors are cut at about 24" so I can stand on the  shorter version in the companionway, and not be standing directly on the hull. I'm building the bracing now for the aft ends of the deck panels, and forward lip of the shorter panels . That extends both berths to over 6'. in the last picture the head would go where the anchor is now sitting.

These pix show the existing port berth, the now shorter starboard berth when cut to size, the new starboard berth, and the two berths, with shorter sections.

I've also got a bridge deck aft of the cabin. I have two 32 AH gel cell batteries in the port side with the charge controller, and I haven't really designated the starboard side compartment for anything specific yet. Might be the galley. I built the compartments with the same style of hatch top as the cockpit hatches so things are nice and dry.

I'll get some pix of the bridge deck tomorrow.

 

 

 

Thanks, I'd wondered what you did to the inside to make it work. I'm hoping I don't have to cut into the forward bulkhead to get enough space. How far down did you cut the port side seat? 

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Mr Bell
I have wondered about a cabin since starting on the boat.  I have ask Graham several times about it.  He said that you had to be real carful about balance and so forth ( do not unber stand that) but any way.  I have gone to home depot and gotten sheets of cardboard that comes on the top of plywood.  They just crush it.  I have also gotten foam board where I could mark on it and cut it with a knife.   I am going to build a cabin of some sort ion my boatthat is why I cut the front bulkhead down to level of seat and added another closer to the bow.  My boat is upside down now and have painted the hull and going to put the ss keel strip on next few days and then turn it back over.  I have added a lot of weight I think just in excess epoxy paint and that stuff.  Have to wait till kids and grand kids will help me turn it.  I have gone ahead and fitted the stern like you did but have not put any deck pieces on as yet
Mcdermitt

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MM,

 I will have to measure the height of the seat when i get over to the boat a little later, but there wasn't very much of it left on the forward end. I'm going to guess that it's about 5 inches at the aft end, but I'll give you exact numbers later.

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Doc
did you use the side deck pieces that came in the kit.  I was thinking of building a cab from the inside of the deck pieces and going up about 24 inches on the back end  going down to about 12 inches at the bow end more less following the line of the deck pieces this is the first boat think I have tried  I was not worried about sitting room but being able to spread out if it rained or sleeping I was thinking of going all the way to the front bulkhead I do not know if it would work or not.  was going to tie the side to the inter edge of the piece running aong the side the deck fastened onto and putting a couple gussrts  along the way and just a thin plywood top.
Mcdermitt 

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Unless you use your boat for a lot of overnight cruises, there's no need to put a cabin on your boat. The only reason I'm thinking about doing mine is I pretty much only use my boat on multi-day trips. Daysailing is not as attractive to me right now, at least as long as I live in this windless hole. 

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McD,

 I totally made things up on the fly. I knew the shape I wanted, and built a few mock ups out of furring strips,card board, etc. to see if my idea(s) were feasible. Funny thing how sometimes rulers and reality don't synch.....

Since this is your first boat it probably makes much more sense for you to build the boat you bought, use it, and THEN make changes as they may be needed. I'm already learning that with Petunia as I've had to re-engineer a few things I didn't understand until I had her on the water, (outboard well, berth height,hinging curved hatch, etc.). And she's not my first build.....ALL of us will always be fiddling,upgrading,improvising,etc. as long as we own our boats, but for your intended use, a good fabric/tarp "cabin" and/or a tent for when you beach her, would sure get you on the water, a LOT sooner....

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Maybe you can get some ideas from the Mk-3 version. http://bandbyachtdesigns.com/17-mark-3/

 

Give Alan a call, maybe he could give some suggestions. Hey, wouldn't it be a great idea for him or Graham to develop a plan to modify the Mk-1 into a Mk-2 (with side decks), or Mk-3

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Stop at an appliance store and pick up some refrigerator boxes. get some packing tape and a box cutter and hash out your ideas. For years I considered "improving" my Sea Pearl in many different ways, making sketches and then one day I went the cardboard prototype route and sort of came up with what Steve Ladd did to his SP as the least worst solution. After spending five minutes inside, I realized it was never going to be able to be transformed into what I wanted. That's why I am building a CS20.3. But I think you are starting with a wider, more stable boat, so it mike work better in your case. My own imagination is pretty optimistic and that is why I went all the way to TN to see Doug's boat to make sure it was the right choice. I think the cardboard could help with that.

 

Take Care,

Steve

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Agreed. the next step is a mock-up. If it doesn't work, then I'll just build a better dodger than the one I've got and keep going. 

 

Anything I do to the boat has to conform to following list:

 

- doesn't make the boat less safe

- Allows crew to lounge comfortably forward of the mizzen. 

- Allows rowing from forward of the mizzen. 

- Gives enough space to sleep one in great comfort and two in a pinch. 

- is dry enough to let me bring my guitar on cruises. 

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If you are near Jacksonville FL in your travels, stop by Pat's Canvas on Pier 17 off Roosevelt. They are good people, and have extra frames laying about that could be modified to fit your boat, and will usually let you have them cheap to get them off there hands. Pat and Mike will also usually explain how to modify the frame for your needs such as cutting a middle section out of a pre-bent frame to shorten it, and using a vice on that to create an insert/stiffener for the middle.

 

The biggest thing that would be nice for me after the R2AK, is being able to fold down the dodger, but have the sunbrella that comes off the back for a tent, be able to be rolled into/over front 1/3 of cockpit to keep anything under or protruding from the overhang dry. I think I saw this done on one of the Core Sound 20's, but not sure which one other then it was dark green I think.

 

My fix I did before the race, was caulking with 4200 some naughahide over the centerboard trunk, with a slit in the middle and flap over it for the centerboard to move; this actually kept water from shooting up into cockpit very nicely.

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This is a very interesting topic. It seems evident that it would be much easier to pull off a good solution if you were starting with a CS 20 and the added length and beam.

 

I tend to like the more traditional looks of this type of cabin with side decks, if you are ok giving up interior space and volume of the Mk 3's.

 

If your were to start a new build, are the plans for a CS 20.2 actually availabe?

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MM,

Here's a few shots of the bridge deck/battery compartment. I'll also attach a shot of the aft end of the new berth. It measured at 3 inches above the original bottom of the face,of the original seat tank. With any kind of side deck I think you'll HAVE to go that low. That's a BIG advantage of the MK III's

Here are pix of the bridge deck, battery compartment,charge controller,solar panel,and the aft end of the new,lower berth to show the 3"remaining side wall.

I power the gel cells with a 20 watt solar panel that runs pump,running lights,GPS,etc.

Oar storage-I can fit 8'oars inside the cabin, but I would prefer to run 9 footers. Might have to sacrifice some rowing ability for the convenience of having them available,and in one piece. I also want to play with a sculling oar to see how she'll respond. Have you tried that yet on Bandaloop?

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There are no plans available for the CS-20 Mk-2. There are a few design drawings, but not many. Graham made me a partial kit and was going to develop it, but the Mk-3 became so popular that the Mk-2 was scratched. He probably still has the cut files for the CNC machine, so he could maybe cut a set of parts. It wouldn't be complete, but between that and the building thread on my boat, you should be able get-r-done.

 

Here is the building thread: http://messing-about.com/forums/topic/8080-cs20-mk2/

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