Maria CS20 104 Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 CS 20 104 is on the ways, ready to put sail tracks on the masts. They are primed and ready, need input. Hardware placement on the deck, provide instruction and advice. I think I got it but I always measure three times, ask advice, measure two more times, look up for support, pray and drill. We are at the point of final installation. My bride says I am scared to commit and finish, but it is my BABY and the biggest project and example to my kids of what you can do and finish and use and be proud of and SMILE about for the rest of your life. You who have done, I am amazed and I will join you soon. ALL advice appreciated. I will be asking lots of questions about hardware mounting in the next few weeks. And thanks again for all the web site input and encouragement ya'll provide to each other and me. THNX Jim A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrary Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Jim, For every fitting attached to deck or spar -- always use bedding compound. Although it increases strength, and the strength may be enough without it, but WITHOUT IT, THERE WILL BE WATER PENETRATION! I learned the hard way. I was in a hurry, near the end of construction, and impatient to get her on the water -- so I skipped the bedding on fittings that I thought wouldn't be immersed in water -- but there was rain water penetration and rot! As a result I have to make a new bow sprit and tabernacle on my PocketShip within less than 5 years. A real bummer. The wood was Douglas Fir -- White Oak may have lasted a little longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria CS20 104 Posted May 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 I will use 5200 on the rivets what else should I do on the mast and deck for hardware? I am ready to move forward and after 6 years I want it right. Thanks Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRich Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 3M 4200 is a good way to go for bedding deck hardware, mostly because it never completely hardens. It stays rubbery while sticking like the Dickens. That way, when you need to rebed the hardware in 15 years--or whenever--you can do it without taking off layers of fiberglass/paint/whatever. The other thing for deck hardware is to drill oversized holes and fill them with thickened epoxy. After they dry, sand them flush and drill new holes the right size. It's a lot of bleedin' work, but between that and the adhesive sealant you bed the hardware with, no water's getting in. Of course, all my experience has been with fiberglass boats with cored decks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria CS20 104 Posted May 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 I have the transition pieces provided by Graham, Teflon I think. I have to thin them some and trim to fit the way I built my mast stops at the transitions between the mast pieces. I am wondering if I trim and fit then glue it all down with 5200 or 4200 and let set up before I rivet in place will that help? I kinda like to fit and glue and then anchor, it seems to make sense to me but I have not got a clue on this item. HELP THNX, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 3M-5200 is more an adhesive than a sealant. 3M-4000 has a bit less tack and dries more pliable, but is much the same formulation as 5200. With hardware bedding on wood, I use 3M-101 which is a polysulfide, instead of the polyurethane of the 4000 and 5000 series adhesive/sealants they offer. It's tack is much less aggressive and it's far more pliable too. I'll second the bonded fastener holes. This saves the wood, as moisture can't get past a failed bedding line to get at it. As to rivets and using something under them, I don't bother, simply using stainless rivets (including shank) on the aluminum spars. All of the mast manufactures (Dwyer, Hall, etc.) do the same thing and I've seen 30 year old sticks with the original mast tangs and hardware still attached and working fine. Yeah, they're may be some pitting and corrosion, but after 3 decades, this should be a given, with or without an isolator between the dissimilar metals. I'm not sure what Graham uses for the "transition" pieces, but if it's Teflon, good luck getting anything to bond well to it. With this material, as well as HDPE, UHMPE, etc. the best you can hope for is a modest seal, rather than an actual bond. These plastics need to be welded or hard fastened (through bolts), if you expect them to stay put under load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 3M-5200 is more an adhesive than a sealant. 3M-4000 has a bit less tack and dries more pliable, but is much the same formulation as 5200. With hardware bedding on wood, I use 3M-101 which is a polysulfide, instead of the polyurethane of the 4000 and 5000 series adhesive/sealants they offer. It's tack is much less aggressive and it's far more pliable too. Exactly what I will be doing on Üinen. I will likely choose BoatLife LifeCaulk instead. It is a polysulfide also and very similar to 3M 101 and more easily available up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnjost Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 I am currently making the fiberglass ramps as shown on Alan Stewarts video of the CS 15 build. Will then use polysulfide around the fastenings and other gaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Silsbe Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 What ramps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnjost Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 check out the videos that Alan put together for the CS 15 kit. I think it is in video 12 look near the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Silsbe Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Oh, I see what the ramps are. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennieG Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 I watched Alan build the CS15 for a day and ended using what he used on deck hardware where possible......butyl rubber, and otherwise LifeCaulk. I liked the butyl as Alan did. It seems to provide a very good seal and remains a little pliable. It is easy to work with as long as the particular screw you are using has enought heft as you need to actually physically squeeze the stuff out of the way as you tighten down the hardware. It is easy to clean. If it is a small screw it is better to use lifecaulk instead of by til rubber. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hughes Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Where do you get the butyl rubber? Brand name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnjost Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 The Despot has it. http://www.homedepot.com/c/caulk_and_sealants_buying_guide_recommendations_for_selecting_and_using_caulks_and_sealants_HT_BG_PA DAP comes in white, grey, said the man who just ordered a large tube of mahogany colored polysulfide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Ludwig Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Here's some butyl caulk at home depot: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-10-5-oz-Butyl-Caulk-Deck-Drainage-System-0099/203768554 This is the only DAP brand that I can find, and it only seems to come in cases: http://www.homedepot.com/p/DAP-Butyl-Flex-10-1-oz-White-Gutter-and-Flashing-Sealant-12-Pack-7079818182/205030314 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Butyl works, but has very little adhesive qualities and not nearly the elongation properties of the polyurethanes and polysulfides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennieG Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 I bought mine from McMaster- Carr. Many different sizes, shapes. Worked for me so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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